Man lol, those guys at bullshido are relentless haha

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by GoldShifter, May 30, 2013.

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  1. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Yeah, but I bet you will "sell yourself" for a couple of good knives :)
     
  2. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I think you've misunderstood what Mitch was saying.

    The majority of TKD is pressure tested for the environment for which it is predominantly aimed: a no or low contact sparring match held to a specific ruleset.

    The problems come when people think that what is being taught the majority of the time is or should be geared towards another environment such as self defence or an MMA competitive fight. The majority of classes aren't designed or pressure tested to meet the requirements of those environments and the majority of the TKD students aren't interested in that.

    I've met Mitch and his students a number of times and I know that his classes are predominantly focused on the former, because that's what modern TKD is and that's what the majority of his students enjoy and strive for. I'm also aware that he encourages students with other interests to cross train, and that he holds occasionally holds voluntary pressure testing sessions of a very different sort under different insurance for students who have secondary combative interests to their TKD.
     
  3. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Nope, hopefully this is where we just draw a difference between rule set and testing. JWT put it well and we're drifting off topic anyway so I'll leave it at that. :)

    Mitch
     
  4. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    You won't get banned just for expressing a differing opinion to one already stated by a mod. We like having people on here who discuss a number of interpretations of martial arts best practice.

    If you went through every thread in the TKD forum and posted "TKD SUX" or something to that effect, that would be trolling and would get you either warned or banned, but just having a different view and expressing it in an appropriate setting is pretty much what this site exists for. I'd get really bored really fast if everyone here agreed with each other on literally everything.

    Anyway, back on topic!
     
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    They already do -

    http://www.bullshido.org/Category:Investigations
     
  6. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    If you're going to make comments like this, I kind of wish he would ban you. It would serve you right, and it would save the rest of us from having to endure this kind of posturing.

    He won't, though, because you're not violating the ToS, which is the only thing people get banned for around here.

    You completely missed Mitch's point. See JWT's post.
     
  7. jnp

    jnp Valued Member

    So, in your mind, expressing a dissenting opinion in a less than polite manner is a ban worthy offense?

    That's rather intolerant of you, don't you think?
     
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    He was using a straw man to bait the moderators.

    Why should anyone be tolerant of that?
     
  9. jnp

    jnp Valued Member

    I disagree. The definition of a straw man argument is using an argument that misrepresents your opponent's position. I know that Kint trained TKD for many years before switching styles. Additionally, he was directly addressing Mitch's assertion that TKD is pressure tested. So I fail to see how Kint's argument has the characteristics of the strawman fallacy.

    Therefore Kint was typing from his personal experience and addressed Mitch's counter argument directly. Unless you think my assessment is incorrect?

    Edit: Now if you want to argue that Kint's personal experience is not enough to pronounce a widespread judgement like the one he issued, then I can understand your point. A person's personal experience is rarely of a sufficient sample size to make truthful broad generalizations.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Not incorrect, just missing the point.

    The straw man was "I'll probably get banned for this". I don't know what MAP used to be like, but in my experience that is a fallacy.
     
  11. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I think the strawman was that accidentally or deliberately he missed Mitch's point completely. TKD is exhaustively pressure tested for its purpose which is TKD competitions. :)
     
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Agreed. You might as well say that tennis is useless, because it doesn't teach you to fight.

    I presume people do TKD to learn a sport, not learn to fight.
     
  13. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    Was going to make this same point but decided to make coffee first. Glad I did since you stated it much better than I would have!
     
  14. Kintanon

    Kintanon Valued Member


    Regardless of what people might sign up for TKD to accomplish, every TKD instructor I have ever had an encounter with (This is numbering in the hundreds over a decade of training and competition) will tell you that TKD is teaching you to fight and that it will work in a fight.

    Edit: This will go on for a few posts, while I become increasingly frustrated at the willful ignorance of the other people involved in the discussion who will continue to stick to their stance despite the mountains of evidence. I will post videos of TKD instructors claiming that they teach fighting, websites claiming that TKD will teach you to defend yourself, etc.... I will follow that up with examples, MASS examples, of TKD failing in those goals. Someone will counter with 1 or 2 examples of TKD succeeding and claim that validates the entire style. I will implode in a firestorm of profanity, and then be banned.

    It has 'Martial' built right into the name even.

    As for my assumption that I will get banned, it's because this discussion is going to escalate fairly rapidly with you and others claiming that it's ok for TKD as an art to be what it is, while I will be arguing that it is NOT ok to convince a bunch of 15 year olds that they are capable of defending themselves against a resisting opponent when they are not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
  15. jnp

    jnp Valued Member

    Ah, I see. My mistake.
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Again, for me it is your assumption of "rapid escalation" that is the problem, not the points you are making about TKD.

    I accept your counter to my point, because I bow to your experience in the matter. I also agree with your sentiments, if it is being sold as more than a sport.
     
  17. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I think most of the posters here will be okay for TKD as an art to be what it is.

    I think most of the posters here will agree with that position too, and will apply it to a large number of different martial arts as well.
     
  18. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    I was accused of not being fun at parties earlier in the thread. I'm guessing you're not either since you seem to be one of those guys who goes to a place and just assumes how everything will be with 100% confidence (and all negative) and then see it as your responsibility to refute all opposition to something you believe in that all the people at the party believe the opposite of.

    You still haven't gotten what you needed though to 'fulfill your destiny' in this thread. You've got the opposite from what I suppose you expected (that being TKD is for sport, not the best to learn for SD). That really throws a wrench in the machinery doesn't it?
     
  19. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I teach TKD. I tell my students TKD sparring is a sport and nothing to do with fighting or self defence.

    Do I win £5?

    Pressure testing is pressure testing, rule set is rule set. Two different things, but it's really not worth getting het up about :)

    Mitch
     
  20. Kintanon

    Kintanon Valued Member


    I'm basing my expectations off of my previous experience here. Nothing more.
     
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