Makiwara at young age?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by TaeAno, Jun 5, 2010.

  1. TaeAno

    TaeAno Certified Ninja

  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You will get two differing opinions here, some will say yes, use it, others will say no.

    I say no. My son is 14 and trains with me and I would not let him use it. I have had some joint injuries and they never seen to clear up properly. I have used a makiwara in the past, but I prefer to hit either the bag or pads. Short punches can be developed without the makiwara, but if you really want to use it then wrap your hands as a boxer would.
  3. TaeAno

    TaeAno Certified Ninja

    Alright, thanks for the advice
  4. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    No, I don't even know of any Japanese instructors who allow under 16s to use a Makiwara.

    There are safer and more effective ways of strengthening your hands.
  5. TaeAno

    TaeAno Certified Ninja

    Oh I didn't know that, what suggestions do you have?
  6. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I would say don't bother with toughening your hands at all. As you develop you will learn (through body mechanics) to hit hard. If you are close enough to punch, then you are close enough to elbow or knee anyway.

    Everything you ever learn will revolve around the basics. Get the basics embeded into you and everything else will take care of itself.

    Take care of your body, allow it to develop, later you can start conditioning yourself specific to whatever you learn or want to learn.

    Now at 15 I suggest you just enjoy training, try to turn up regularly, get in some practice outside of class, maybe attend the odd seminar.

    Good luck.
  7. TaeAno

    TaeAno Certified Ninja

    thanks for the advice, appreciate it! :)
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Honestly, I think the best hand conditioning for your age is training, especially if you already do some bag/pad work.
  9. PlumDragon

    PlumDragon "I am your evil stimulus"

    As an iron palm practitioner who breaks concrete slabs bare-handed (no towel, etc) on a weekly basis, my personal opinion is that makiwara training is dangerous. I dont advocate conditioning the knuckles on any surface other than a heavy bag like boxers do, and very much prefer to only condition the palm, hammer fist, and back of hand. Its safe, doesnt disfigure your hands at all, and you can learn to produce very large amounts of power with these strikes.

    Using that power in a fight, however, requires an entirely different type of training, of which seems to be totally absent in the systems that do train iron palm.
  10. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    At that young, I wouldn't. Nor would I with a cheap wall mounted makiwara.
  11. Ranzan

    Ranzan Valued Member

    This, I doubt you will need to condition your hands anymore than what you will already get from training.
  12. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    before you start makiwara training you'd need:

    developed bone structure (i started at 17, iirc, while already a black belt and with a good amount of bagwork done in the past)

    strong wrists (seiken pushups. LOTS of them. if you have access to mats or padded floors, try plyometric seiken pushups)

    good technique (get a hold of a karate instructor, preferably from goju ryu or uechi ryu, and get yourself coached on proper makiwara technique for at least a month before even trying by yourself. this might necessarily mean actually training in karate)

    besides this, start VERY, VERY lightly. i never hit mine with seiken tsuki for more than five minutes or so (rarely even that), and it's got a piece of a fricking rubber tatami as padding. fives strikes every two days should be plenty for about four or five months (and for the love of the flying spaghetti monster, do not hit it full-power for at least a year, and ALWAYS stop when you get pain inside your hand, and leave it alone until it's fully recovered). remember the makiwara is NOT a conditioning-only tool. it's a structure and power development tool based on impact, hence the conditioning effect.

    all that aside though, i would not buy THAT makiwara, as the site has no side view, thus i have no way of knowing how much give it can have, and the big cushion is completely useless. a makiwara pad is typically around 10 centimeters wide and a bit taller. from what i see, that is NOT a makiwara, but more like a glorified wall-bag.

    either way, you can use it (or a more proper makiwara) for strikes that do not have joint impact, like knife hands, ridge hands, elbows, etc. bear in mind again, though, that it's not solely a conditioning tool. hitting it for the sake of hitting it is futile, a bag is much more effective for that. you use the makiwara to reinforce proper striking principles for each technique, in isolation. this will still produce shock on your bones though, so even if you're not gonna punch it, wait until you're a bit older to buy one.

    this is the wall-mounted makiwara i have in my room, for comparison (my hits suck, and so does my makiwara :p): [ame=""]Makiwara stuff - YouTube[/ame]

    here are clips of someone with MUCH better technique than me doing proper makiwara work in a proper makiwara:

  13. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Damn fish, every time I see that picture of you in your avatar I think of this guy

  14. TaeAno

    TaeAno Certified Ninja

    Wow Fish, thanks, that's some great advice I guess I'll wait a bit and when the time comes I'll find an instructor! thanks!!
  15. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Are wall mounted makiwara any good? I would've thought it was a pretty bad idea as it's essentially hitting a wall with a little bit of padding.

    I'd happily use a "proper" standing makiwara as they have some flexion in the design, but wall mounted ones seem no better than standing and punching the wall - the wall's never gonna give and your hands might.
  16. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    @TA: no prob, dude.

    @moosey: it depends on the makiwara in question. what taeano posted was little more than a wall bag. a properly constructed wall-makiwara should have a decent amount of give in it to be useful, but i agree with you that it's never going to be as good as a floor mounted one. not going ape<beep> on it also helps :p
  17. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    [ame=""]Goju-Ryu Makiwara Gustavo Tata IOGKF Marzo 2007 - YouTube[/ame] this is an interesting type of home-made wall makiwara. video quality is not that great, but it appears to be mounted on a tire?
  18. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    :cool: Ha! Excellent idea!
  19. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    can you not get sprung wall mounted ones which imitate how standing ones work? If not, I'm going to design one and become a billionaire.
  20. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    you sir, are the anti-ninja

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