Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by JTMS, Aug 24, 2007.

  1. JTMS

    JTMS Valued Member

    I am not a member of WKSA, however I have noticed some WKSA members even school owners (one in particular) who make negative and at times embarrassingly rude comments about Kuk Sa Nim and their own organization. I just wanted to get your views on these types of comments. Also I would like to know how important loyalty is to each of you when reflecting on these comments.
  2. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    there are too many people on here that just like to bitch about kuk sa nim and his organisation, its one of the reasons i don't post on here that often! imo if they don't like it they should leave and keep their negative and non-constructive criticism's to themselves.
  3. kiseki

    kiseki beating shadows since '06

    My policy regarding politics is to pretend they don't exist. I suspect that is the case with many of the students I work with who seem to have equal respect for KSN and Master Simms. Personally, I've never heard anything negative about either except on this site.
  4. JTMS

    JTMS Valued Member

    I find it very interesting that people will make comments on this site that they would never make in person!
  5. AirNick

    AirNick Valued Member

    Come on guys, do we REALLY need another thread like this? All this negative stuff reflects badly on the org.
  6. Willow

    Willow Valued Member

    Welcome to the world of internet message boards.
  7. jjk

    jjk Valued Member

    I don't find this to be that good of an idea. Understanding politics is key to understanding individuals and their decisions in groups. I would encourage you not to pretend they don't exist, but to try to figure out WHY they exist. This does not mean you need to go stick your head where it's not welcomed, but knowing politics can only benefit you in any organization.
  8. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    I'll be getting my coat then mate :D

    If you have an organisation where everyone agrees with everything its called a dictatorship or a cult take your pick which one you want or allow people there freedom of thought ;)

    Hell theres nothing I wouldn't say to anyones face I have posted on here. How much respect have they got for me by not listening to my opinion and just doing what they want? Its a 2 way street the sooner people realise that and just don't curtail to it the better as far as I'm concerned. if you want a diverse art you need a diversity of people involved. With that come different oppinions and different standpoints. The fact that everyone doesn't necessarily agree with everything that is going on at least shows they care. You ever thought about that?

    OH and this second paragraph isn't just aimed at my mate Dave :)
  9. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    I love your beard!!

    There you go I'd say that to your face too.

    Don't judge everyone by your own fear to tell someone the truth just because they hold some sort of false power over you because they have dona a hobby for longer than you. Seriously get a life OH i'd say that to your face too.

    Man do all americans over generalise or what.Oops over generalisation there :D
  10. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    And the nominations for Mr diplomacy this year are................

  11. IBelieved

    IBelieved Valued Member

    I am no longer a WKSA member.

    I have been known to criticise Kuk Sa Nym and the Won, and it was some of those criticisims that helped facilitate my departure. I have said it before and it's worth repeating: I love Kuk Sool, and I admire what Kuk Sa Nym has done in building the martial art. But I do not like what the WKSA has become, nor do I like many of the decisions that Kuk Sa Nym has made in his later years. I do believe that he had his own good reasons for doing them, and I also believe that I could / should leave if I'm not willing to go along with them 100%. Kuk Sool is the Suh family martial art business, not a democracy.

    And before anyone asks, I no longer participate in any internet discussions about Kuk Sa Nym or the WKSA's direction because I think such discussions are futile.
  12. JTMS

    JTMS Valued Member

    Hi Silentmonk,

    I am glad you like my beard!! I am not motivated by fear, I am motivated by loyalty. If I thought that I any major issues w/ Grand Master Seo I would talk to him not cry on the internet. If the issue could not be resolved I would move on. I enjoy a happy relationship w/ my Grand Master, his children and the senior masters of Hanminjok.

    I think it is less than honorable to whine like a spoiled child in an open forum. It is kind of funny that you mention fear......I wonder how many that gripe here don’t do so to their Grand Master out of fear? Is that when you are silent Silentmonk? You don't seem to be very quiet now.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2007
  13. Lame Leopard

    Lame Leopard Valued Member

    I cannot comment on the specific organization or person you have mentioned, but I belong to several martial arts associations. I never publicly criticize any of them, their leaders, or members. I practice the respect that I expect of others towards me. My thoughts can be anything they want, but they remain just that, my thoughts.
  14. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    i don't have a problem with freedom of thought and speech (i think my sig may reflect that ;) ) what gets my back up is that too many people come on here just to moan and whine about kuk sa nim and his policies. hell, if they don't like it that much then leave! i'm sure they would if was their employer they had that much of a gripe at!

    unfortunatly the world isn't perfect and neither, i suspect, is kuk sa nim and the wksa.
  15. JTMS

    JTMS Valued Member

    Hi davefly 76,

    I am glad to see you have a sound sense of loyalty and some common sense.
  16. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Haha you do make me laugh....................

    Ok silent means being quiet, well done for your command of the english language ......

    i'll give you a clue about the name.

    The second part "monk" means you chose to live a celibate life right? Guess what I don't do that and I'm not silent thats the whole point of the name. Irony really is lost on you aparently and yes I am soooo scared.

    May be you stick your rank on your name so everyone thinks your amazing and because you like to brag about your rank so that everyone thinks you are amazing at martial arts. Assumption mother of all F**K UPs.

    You again are soo right. But then I say you're scared of losing what is a very profitable business to you probably, something that supports your family and pays your bills. You are scared of not having the backing and support of an organisation that has made you feel very important and without it you would be lost. I therefore say you are not loyal, you are indoctrinated into a system by fear of losing everything you have in life. I think thats a stronger motivator than loyalty. You are loyal because its suits you to be, not because you do not happen to disagree with anything your organisation happens to do. I don't have that fear. If they throw me out ok, who is that a bigger reflection of loyalty on. Me for saying something was wrong, or them for not being loyal because maybe 10% of the things I see in an organisation are wrong, and trying to maybe open peoples minds to how they could be better, rather than just following like a lamb.

    Disagreement and having gripes about something is not being disloyal, Setting up a seperate organisation or an off shoot could be deemed so. Doing something that is detremental to the organisation could be deemed so. Saying something isn't working right is just allowing people freedom of speech. Something I believe a lot of people have fought and died for the right to have.

    By the way you think they are loyal and respect their instructors? I laugh at that because of a story I heard first hand last night. I have never heard of something so disrespectful and it was caried out by the GM. Now if I wasn't loyal I'd post that on here, but then again maybe I do have some loyalty to an organisation after all. Loyalty is born out of respect and respect is a two way street, some people need to become way humbler before they get respect through means other than fear.

    But then I guess there will always be people who post their rank on a forum to validate there importance hey. ;)
  17. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Nah your signature reflects you like aircraft LOL :D :D

    No he isn't perfect. Ok you know you're not perfect right Dave? forget what your mum tells you ;)

    Why is that? because people have probably not agreed with everything you have done in live. So you learned that you are not always right and that people will always disagree and there are no perfect solutions or outcomes.

    If you hadn't had someone with a different idea you wouldn't have learned anything. I mean you probably liked crapping your nappy when you were a child, your parents convinced you it was a better idea to use a toilet. If they hadn't bothered and just let you carry on you'd still be crapping your nappy ;)

    Outside ideas help us develop, if we don't understand or try to understand the motivation of our members and what they do and don't like as an organisation then we will perish and the whole art will be gone. Its about absorbing criticism and learning from it mate.

    Yeah its annoying but you can't stop it you need it to grow.

  18. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    hey! i still like crapping in my nappy :p
  19. Shibby!

    Shibby! Valued Member

    My loyalty lies with my instructor, because he deserves it.

    Loyalties dont lie with the organisation, most of the students here dont go to Kuksool for the art itself, they go because of the instructors.

    KUKSOOLWON is a buisness, people always have problems with they way a buisness is run. I can understand he is trying to keep it all within his control.

    With regard to people leaving, well they were not getting the benefits they thought they deserved so they left, just like any job.

    Seems simple to me.

    Loyalty doesnt lie with the art. It lies with people that deserve it/earn it.

  20. JTMS

    JTMS Valued Member

    Look, I am not a part of your org. If you don't like it and want to stay I guess that is your business. The fact that you gripe about your org in a public forum is also your business not mine as I am not a part of your org. I still think that publicly pointing out the negative in a public forum is not a form of loyalty.

    If my MAP handle offends you..... well it is NOT my intent to be offensive or boastful with my screen name. If it is boastful....big ooops for me.

    I don't see why you must be vulgar to make your point. However I think your vulgarity supports my point.

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