Low kick defences

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by YODA, Nov 14, 2002.

  1. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    I'll give it a try.

    Upwards block isn't exactly trying to stop the kick by pitting force against force, nor by simply accelerating the kick past you so they overbalance. Even someone reasonably flexible is going to lose a lot of power to their leg when its suddenly yanked higher than they expected, and they will go off balance. Since you've also got hold of their leg you can side kick or swing kick to the supporting knee, or to be honest anything you want.

    I suppose its a catch more than a block.
     
  2. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    What are you catching the kick with?

    Are you somehow stopping the kicks movememnt first or just catching it?

    What actually stops the kick from hitting you?
     
  3. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    Sorry I have to point this out
    I am very surprised that so many of you stress or teach moving straight backwards.Particularly those of you involved in ring comps but for the self defense people as well.
    Why,
    to go directly backwards is to simply encourage your attacker to follow without any alteration to his momentum,considering that most arts train in a linear attack stlye and that many are middle distance attacks all you have done is step back into this trained target distance and area.Unless your stategy is to work the ropes,you will find there is only so many steps you can take directly backward within a ring enviroment.

    Why use angles?
    Forces your opponent to follow YOU
    Uses the ring area efficently
    By angling 45 degrees backwards you evade the attack, change his direction of attack and create distance.
    By steping sideways you can evade the attack,force his change of direction and maintian distance.
    By stepping 45 degrees forward you evade the atttack and close distance forcing defensive movement.
    By stepping 45 and attacking well enough said

    Linear movement is inbuilt in everyone in times of stress.Rather then rely on this predictable form of movement I beleive in training timing,distance and speed into fluid/powerfull anglar and circular movement to be an important basis for comp or self defence practioners.
     
  4. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    Yoda's list

    Hi Yoda et al ,

    Good list that you have there. I was wondering when you talk about the leg shields do you also include cross blocks into that category (i.e. a crush with the opposite leg)? I find that I have more success in actually attacking the kick using the cross block.

    As you mention the backwards evasion is not always possible and not necesarily the best move anyway. As Kat pointed out its surprising that so many people rely on this as a tactic as it does encourage the opponent to come in on you. Unless of course this is all part of your plan (ABD for instance). It's far quicker to just lift for the crush and I really love to extend my opposing arm out for a blind/baffle in their face (if nothing else its annoying:) ).

    Occassionally we practice the direct cut kick with an intial overwrap (i.e. move off on what in Kali is the female triangle, overwrap the kick and then cut kick). It doesn't need quote as good timing as the direct cut kick as it allows a margin of error. However it isn't straight Thai and really leads into a takedown/submission scenario. Oh and I've just realized this is more appropriate at the rib level rather than thigh... must pay attention to details like this!

    As I'm now at rib height... one I like from Kali and is quite useful if you are in half guard temporarily - underhook/scoop the kick with your lead hand (as its already low) and then pivot into the kick to attack the leg with your reear elbow (secoh)... just above the knee seems pretty effective... again this leads into takedowns etc and isn't appropriate for Thai boxing in the ring.

    Having said all that, and getting back to the thigh kick scenario, I pretty much have most success with the techniques you have asterisked. I don't really like the backwards evasion unless its accompanied by passing the kick with myt lead hand to some extent and then moving straight in. I never manage to get the teep onto the kicking leg and therefore also go for the hip or body and the shield with pick-up I find hard unless the kick is aimed a little higher (end up fumbling for the pick-up when its that low).

    Jamie
     
  5. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Inside of your forearm, coming up from underneath. Think of being at a swimming pool and scooping water at your kids to make them squeal.

    You absorb the kick's movement as you catch, your arm providing some resistance but not enough to take the full impact, and gradually slowing the leg. The fact that you're yanking their leg upwards often prevents people from putting any further energy into the kick.

    You've already moved back out of range enough to prevent anything other than a light contact.
     
  6. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Would you use this against a low kick Jimmy? I'd be worried about taking the force of a kick on my arm. And what if the kick isn't a straight kick, which it may well not be, then it makes catching much more risky. I think I'd only use that technique if I'd managed to side step a fairly high kick. Trying to do it stepping back can be risky, you've got to judge the range just right or the move either won't work or end up taking a direct hit.
     
  7. slc

    slc Banned Banned

    I think blocking kicks in Muay Thai with your arms could be incredibly dangerous because you would probably get your head taken off at the same time :)

    Assuming the kick is coming for the front leg, how about a knee to the body from the front leg, I think if your opponent is kicking his/her guard would probably be slightly high and you might get through and avoid the kick whilst keeping a good defence and possibly putting your opponent off balance. You'd need to be quick!

    I liked the idea about trapping with both legs. I think this would require a lot of practice to keep your structure strong but if done correctly would probably be very effective.
     
  8. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    are we talking about a low kick defences?
     
  9. slc

    slc Banned Banned

    I'm not sure exactly what you're asking?

    If you want to know what we are talking about specifically, this is the answer:


    As I understand it we are talking about the Muay Thai kick to the thigh.

    From my short time practicing at Muay Thai this is, for example:

    Facing your opponent in a normal Thai Boxing fighting stance (lets say left leg forwards, both you and your opponent). Your opponent kicks to the inside of your thigh (on your lead leg, left) with his/her shin.

    Thai boxers like to break your roots!


    But if you are questioning why I am not actually using a defensive move here, this is the answer:


    Not being where the attacker is stricking is probably the best possible defence there is. Using this movement to counter at the same time would be a good move.


    Or maybe you are wondering why I think the guard may be slightly high? It only takes a very small adjustment to give you the advantage. There is no specific reason why the guard should be any higher but I think that a great deal of fighters will raise their guard a little even if they don't realise it.


    Simon :)

    Ps Just seen this which might be a good defence :woo:

    :eek:
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2002
  10. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I was just a bit puzzled with the mention's of being hit in the head and the use of a rising block.

    I find theres often little option than takinng the hit on the shin if the attacker is a decent kicker. In which case they'll give you little chance to respond, such as to move to the side or out of range. Only other option being to kick the kickers leg. But one thing I wouldn't try is to stop it with my arm :O
     
  11. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Yep, without a doubt. Works brilliantly against low kicks. Remember that you're not taking the full brunt of the kick on your arm, you're slowly absorbing the impact, and raising the leg at the same time to destroy the power in the kick.

    However timing is essential, there's a reason we teach it at black belt level and not before.
     
  12. slc

    slc Banned Banned

    Hi pgm316

    Sorry.... Should have been more specific.

    The reference I was making to a block with the arms was in repsonce to some other posts suggesting this. I meant lower block.

    Imagine being faced with a Thai Boxer, they use a low kick (to your thigh) and you try and block it with your arms. What do you think the Thai Boxer is going to do? He's going to expose the gap you've just opened and knock your block off!
     
  13. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    That's why you only use one arm, ever.
     
  14. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I see what your saying, I agree, wouldn't be a good thing to do!

    Apart from that I don't think my arm would stand up to blocking a kick from a Thai boxer.......
     
  15. slc

    slc Banned Banned

    I think you'd be very lucky to pull off blocking with the arm(s). But it depends on the situation, on the street you have far more options, in the ring it's a little different.

    Taking into consideration the distance and the angle I think it would be difficult to position yourself 1) to deflect the kick 2) to keep your defence closed, without having your arm broken.

    These guys kick hard, I mean really hard (why do you think they use the shin? It's so that they don't break their feet!).

    Maybe a Thai Boxer would care to contribute on how they deal with it, it happens all the time in the ring. From what I've seen they don't really do much to avoid it (except that they probably move with it), just get on with it but there may be more too it than meets the eye (there usually is!).

    From my short time at Muay Thai I learnt to defend the upper half of my body with hands and arms and the lower half with legs.

    You'd be suprised how effective a leg block can be. I saw one guy block a shin kick with his shin and break the other guys leg (not very nice!)...he'll never fight again...this is a tough sport!
     
  16. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Something we also do in Kung Fu, even though some Kung Fu people will teach you blocking techniques that risk breaking your arm.

    One thing I wouldn't do, is try blocking a kick one arm. It would probably go straight through. A leg is far stronger than an arm. I'd either try to move or double block it.
     
  17. slc

    slc Banned Banned

    Going forward is a good option as it closes the gap and the kick would have little power. But again, double block leaves you wide open for a much more final attack.
     
  18. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Fifty fifty that he'd have broken his own. Just depends who's done more conditioning, and hence who's bones are more brittle.

    Sorry, should've clarified. Our blocks aren't the classical block, they're deflections, so there is no 'going straight through', you're just changing the trajectory to be harmless to you.
     
  19. slc

    slc Banned Banned

    I personally think that the leg block can have more strength than the kick in Muay Thai, because of the angle of the leg. But, of course, I could be wrong! :)

    Most of the blocks I've ever learnt are deflections too but look at the angle. Where could you deflect the kick to? It is coming between your legs...ouch!
     
  20. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Front kick? Side step and deflect it to the side. Swing kick, deflect it downwards or upwards. Linear kick (side kick for example) any direction you choose.
     

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