Hi all I am looking at getting into MA and was looking at WC kung fu but after going to my 1st lesson i have decided against this after seeing how they train (really, really soft IMO) As there was only 1 WC school where I live I have decided to look into kempo but have some questions, 1) Is Kempo effective for self defence? 2) Will I need a high level of fitness from day 1? 3) How long does it take to become proficent in the art? I understand question 3 will depend on the individual person but if you can just tell me in your experince that would ne much appreciated. Below is the link to the website of the school i am looking at http://www.tqg.co.nz/index.asp cheers for the advice.
Kempo is a ok martial art. But I am usually apprehensive and weary about who teaches it. In other words, I scrutinize whoever teaches it. I dont think any martial art treats or expect beginners to have a prestine level of fitness. Number 3, moot question.
Ahem. *clears throat* at the kempo school where i did 2 months of kempo last year, they expected little white belts to be able to do 50 pushups and idk how many situps to pass a yellow belt test.
Ahem. *clears throat* While a few arts do have a hard workout for beginners, most tend to work the student fitness level low, esp in the law suit happy USA
To answer your questions about Kempo: 1) Depends on how it's taught 2) Again, depends on how it's taught, but they should help raise you to the level of fitness required to be effective in the art 3) Depends on how it's taught, and how much time and effort you put into training Having said that, style is less important than training methodology. Go try out a free intro class (if they don't offer one, best to avoid the place), and ask the following: -Do they practice their techniques on a continuum from no resistance up to full resistance, or do they restrict themselves only to compliant partner drills? (more resistance = better) -How often do they spar? (more = better) -How realistic is the sparring (more = better) -What level of emphasis is placed on fitness (there should be at least some) -How much experience does the teacher(s) have? (more = better) -What types of certification/credentials does the teacher(s) have? (more = better) -What are the students like? (you'll be training with these people, so consider them too!)
Kenpo/Kempo is a great preemptive striking style. I don't think, however, that it is a good fighting style, in the same way that Kyokushin, Muay Thai or MMA are. It just doesn't have the tactics or striking combinations. That's not to suggest though that individual instructors can't or don't add all this to their systems. The most important thing about self protection training is that the drills and sparring reflect what actually happens on the streets. IMO one of the biggest flaws with how Kenpo (or American Kenpo anyway) is trained is that the scenarios seem to be developed around the style, as opposed to the style being developed around the scenarios, which is how it should be. At times I believe that some instructors are afraid that it would be a great dishonour to Ed Parker if they changed the format of their classes and the drills that they do. Also, a lot of instructors, in a lot of different styles and even combat sports, don't teach the "soft skills" of self protection i.e. awareness, avoidance etc. Kenpo also has a severe lack of wrestling. Generally not. It's important to remember that combat sports fighters need to be extremely fit as they are going to be in the ring/cage/on the mats for 10 minutes and upwards (different times depending on the sport). For self protection however the objective is to avoid a fight at all costs and while the "pre-fight" might last a while, the fight itself, if it happens, should only last a few seconds if you're a skilled preemptive striker. In my experience of training in American Kenpo, in a number of different schools, people are usually getting good at the style at around blue or green belt. How long it takes someone to get to blue belt will depend a. on the person, b. on the training done and c. on how easily their instructor gives out grades. Some schools may also have lower grades that are of a higher standard. Understand though that being proficient in the art is completely different from being proficient at defending yourself. Just to share a little more of my opinion about self protection. I personally believe that the structured learning systems of "traditional" martial arts are simply not compatible with modern realistic self protection. What I mean by that is the structured systems are designed to bring the practitioners through a progressive learning system where their skills are developed over a long period time, with the objective of turning them into complete fighters (supposedly). And many systems do actually successfully complete this objective, and do so very well. The fact is however, that you don't need to be a complete fighter to have good self protection skills. It's like someone who wants to be a computer repair technician. They aren't going to go to university to study computer science or IT, they are going to do specific courses developed to turn them into efficient repair technicians. The same goes for self protection. IMO self protection is only a small part of the complete spectrum that's covered by martial arts, and it is better to go to a club that trains in a system specifically refined for self protection than spending years training in a martial art, even though the martial art might turn you into a more complete and a more efficient fighter. All that having been said, if you are like me i.e. someone who is not natural prey for predatory attackers, or even for someone to confront, then training in martial arts can be very enjoyable, and a very rewarding experience, even if you never learn to efficiently defend yourself or ever have to do so. The above is nothing more than my own opinion on the subject, and is subject to correction or even completely changing my mind on certain parts if my experiences in the future prove me wrong
I agree. However, it is nearly impossible to train in all street situations and train in a manner exactly This doesn't only happen in Kenpo. It happens with a lot of martial arts. Some maybe, but in any martial art org, usually there are those who will branch away. When this happens, there is a power struggle. I agree. There is more to defense, what you call self protection than physical defense techinques. Lacking wrestling skill? Grappling and takedowns seem to be what is required and practiced I agree upon avoiding the fight. If there is no confrontation, there is no victory, nor defeat. I agree, I have observed many "pre-fight" phases and they transition into a fight itself lasting a very short amount of time. In these cases, there was no time for any ground work. I agree. And this is where a false sense of ability or complacency could turn into a rude awakening for some. I somewhat agree. But it isnt only the "traditional" martial arts which are not compatible with modern defense. I agree. As I had stated on another thread, you dont have to be a black belter, no a martial artist. In anything, going to a specific area of study should warrant the best learning/apply outcome. This is not limited in the study of martial arts. The con to going to a specific area of study, is that it limits anything else that could have been introduced to better the study overall. Everyone has their own reason(s) to study a martial art. The grand scheme of martial arts is its diversity. Which, is a good approach.
There is a huge kenpo school at 5 minutes from my house, the only reason i do not go there is because they compete all the time in musical kata, and the sparring there requires an armour worst then what you use in TKD. There is no free fight its all point sparring even in the class. And for belt grading you must choose 2 plastic weapons and master them at some point which i hate. Real kenpo looks to be quit awsome to practice, most of the school have incorporated ground fighting, and some schools are free fights which is best. Most school today will offer a free trial, there is a sport karate school around my area that offers a full week of class free to see if you are going to like it or not, but they charge an arm and a leg after. My advise try it, and see if you like it, i did TKD for 7 years and it never served me in the streets. But i had so much fun doing it. Now i want to do something else like karate to get a more complete art because TKD around where i lived never evolved so there is still no punching, sad because lots of WTF TKD school now have some type of boxing with the TKD class.
As some one who has studied Kenpo and Kuntao aka chuan fa for close to 40 yrs, I have to agree with some of the comments made here so far.. I would offer the following critiques on any kenpo school irregardless of style/system or origin. If the head instructor has colored belts teaching the class: walk on by If the drills or applications looks like the practitioners are hitting with pillows: walk on by If the instructor dictates that tourneys are mandatory:: pick up the pace and walk on by If the applications look like they are hard hitting and you see the people actually reacting to getting hit hard:: Slow the pace down and watch the class If the instructor greets you with a contract in hand: Run Like Hell and go on with life. I have studied Kuntao aka chuan fa and various kenpo systems through out asia and in the states.. I prefer the hard hitting aspects as that dictates to the validity of the street applications taught.. But along the same lines, I have been to some kenpo classes where the blackbelts would hit the heavy bag and the thing wouldn't even move.. So take it for what it's worth and do some research into the system and teacher before signing up for classes and wasting your time doing what is called martial arts but in disguise is nothing more than choreographed ballet, the only difference is the color of the uniform..
I think the most important issue in Kenpo is who is teaching... I've seen a lot of instructors that dont know what they are doing... They maybe know many aspects of various martial arts... but they dont know how to teaching Kenpo, there's a huge lack of concepts that are filled with some other things of other martial arts. (Its ok to explore other techniques, but if you are teaching Kenpo it s a little bit strange the fact you dont know Long Form 4 for example and instead of the long 4 you teach a Kung Fu kata that you learned). XD I know my english is bad (maybe) but thats a fact and I've seen that before ahah So, be carefull and certify that the instructor is qualified. PEace
Who the instructor is probably the most important point made. That wil determine what the instructor brings into it and what they take from the original material. I know that where I train, the system is constantly changing and adapting. While still staying true to the original material. Also as far as self-defense goes, I'd say that its a pretty decent art for self defense. At least in my experience it has been. My class has military, ex military and law enforcement in it. The only thing I'd agree on is that it has a limited amount of ground work. Beginnging level fitness isn't much to worry about. Although I assume if you're looking into starting a martial art you already know you want to get into shape, so you have the right mindset, just make it happen. The instructor will work with your level, and if you exercise on your off days as well, you'll feel better in no time. Good luck.
The truth is in the training, typically no you dont have to be in great shape, and if you are willing to take the time to learn the principals in American Kenpo which is what i study, it is a very suitable fighting style. It not only conditions the muscle memory but you must be willing to THINK to understand the ideas. Some people will disagree with this but thats just because their instructors wont hand them the information and they are probably to lazy to analyze it themselves. Of course thats just been my experience, from what I've seen find a good instructor in any style and youll enjoy it, if the instructor sucks then your experience in the system will suck.
If your wanting to learn kempo in new zealand, check out the Robert Gemmell school of martial arts.He has been teaching kempo there for 40 or 50 years.
