looking to research my own lineage in martial arts - need help

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by swhitney222, Feb 16, 2016.

  1. swhitney222

    swhitney222 New Member

    Hi Everyone,

    I am looking to do some research in finding out were my own line or lineage came from. definitely not doing this to put down or discredit anyone. I had a teacher that after 15 years of training with him and making it up the ranks of 2nd Black belt (in his version of American Kenpo not Ed Parkers Kenpo) I was banished. I never knew who taught him in what he said was American Kenpo. so if anyone knows of who taught Mike Agbay (3rd degree black belt in American Kenpo) his school is MJA Martial Arts in Sturbridge MA. I know he grew up in the Worcester MA area. We are not on speaking terms unfortunately and he would not tell anyone who taught him or how he acquired his rank. So like I said this is not to discredit or put down him, but to find out the history of were my own training originated from.


    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2016
  2. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Google him. Seen a video. Not impressive to me. For one thing, it is very odd that a instructor doesn't have a lineage or reference to someone that has taught him. This raises a flag as this maybe a person that studied on the fly. In other words, he grabbed a few books and videos, practiced, then is "self-proclaimed"
  3. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    how does one get "banished"?
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Lesser ritual of the Pentagram usually
  5. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    I dunno what more you hope to find past the responses on here:


    It seems almost certain your instructor was never awarded a legitimate black belt or teacher certificate in Kenpo. Quite possibly he went to a Kenpo class somewhere a way back when, did it for a little while, then started teaching even though he wasn't qualified to do so.

    If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't worry about it. I use to train in the WJJF and to say they have a questionable lineage is an understatement... they don't have any lineage before 1970.

    May I ask the OP, do you still train in any other martial arts?
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This guy?


    If I were you I would just forget where he is allegedly from and his alleged lineage and just move on to something better
  7. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    Ye Gods. I concur with Hannibal, I'd pretend I didn't know him. If it looks like a fraud and quacks like a fraud....
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Haha...that guy has taken the command "come at me bro!" and made it in video form.
    Why is he attacking someone from literally 20 foot away?
  9. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Looks like Stephen Seagull wannabe

    He was trying to dodge the invisible no touch chi fireballs
  10. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Well that was pure garbage.

    As if you had to be banished to leave that steaming heap. Ultimately he did you a favour.
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    What worries me more is 15 years at this poop....
  12. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    right. 15 years? oof.
  13. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    "Ignorance is Bliss" ????:dunno:
  14. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    How could you honestly go 15 years without asking? Or how could you go 15 years of him stonewalling you on that and not think something was up and that you should check into it yourself? "Who trained you" seems like a basic 'checking out the school in the first place' type question to ask.
  15. swhitney222

    swhitney222 New Member

    hi everyone, to answer a few questions,

    1. yes knowledge is everything and when I started I was uneducated in what was and is martial arts. I started when I was 15.

    2. the reason I stayed so long was it was a job needed money and mostly cause of the children I was teaching. so when he fired me and kicked me out that took care of that.

    3. the reason he banished me, only from what I can see cause he gave me no answer as of why, was asking questions about his system/lineage, and his own mighty chip on his shoulder.

    4. I am currently still training heavily with Dave Staples in Worcester MA, which can definitely further my skills in American kenpo, as well as Karim-ben Saunders in Tai Chi. (which both are not afraid to let everyone know who there instructors are) :)

    5. looking for his teacher is not to prove that I have skill, I can fight no questions about that, what I am wondering is what he calls American Kenpo is not Ed Parker's American Kenpo, even though he uses all the principles, theories, patches and recommends reading all his books. he is not teaching the actual forms or techniques of American kenpo.

    6. my training was very tailored, for example he has techniques up to orange that he created, which is just a mixture of basic moves put in logical order to defend against a certain attack. after orange we created our own techniques based on certain principles and motions that would have to logically make sense for self defense purposes.

    7. Lastly the major reason why I started wondering was when I questioned him about a technique that I just completed, "how did my skill look". when he answered me with a questionable answer as if he was unsure, I knew he could not take me any further skill wise. and about a few months after that he fired me.

    8. Mostly I am doing this for historical purposes for my own history. I know I am in a better martial arts place now.

    for background on Michael Agbay, according to his stories most I believe are made up, born 1960 he started training around the 1977-1979 time frame says he got 1st degree in 1983 and 1987 3rd degree. supposedly his amercan kenpo teacher was African American and he lived in the Worcester MA area.

    Hope this gives everyone a little more info, I am hoping that someone reads this that new of him or trained with him that could give me a little insite, my sources say it might be a guy named thane Collins but I cannot get ahold of him.
  16. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    Thanks for the background and also welcome.
  17. swhitney222

    swhitney222 New Member

    Hi Everyone,

    Well, I am giving up on trying to find out who Michael Agbay's Instructor was. everyone that helped out on providing information thank you. everyone that asked him for me and when I asked him all got the same response " I am unable to tell you who my sensei was", well I believe he may have made it to a brown belt or 1st black and then he self proclaimed himself to 3rd degree as well as a self proclaimed black sash in wing chun. All I can say is I am a better place now and can only look to the future. going to seminars from the great American kenpo legends Larry Tatum, Gilbert Velez, Doreen Dirienzo, Lee Wedlake really showed me how an actual kenpo practitioner is supposed to moves. Thanks to Dave Staples for taking me on as a student and giving me the corrections needed to advance my skill to the next level and break the poor habits that was not seen while training under Michael agbay.
  18. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Well done, mate!

    Onwards and upwards.

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