Looking for Custom Tambo

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by monkeywrench, Aug 29, 2011.

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  1. monkeywrench

    monkeywrench Valued Member

    I've been looking online to order a pair of tambos, but haven't had much luck. One site that has been recommended is gungfu.com which does have some nice ones. But I believe they will be too short for me.

    The guidelines for tambos is that it should reach about to your ankle bone roughly an inch or so off the floor. The idea being that you get maximum reach from that length.

    Here's a video that shows a good representation of the proportion:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHL2duvK5mc"]Cuong Nhu Double Tambo 1 by Phillip Moo - YouTube[/ame]
    Sensei Phillip is a cool dude btw. I get to see him fairly often during the year.

    The conclusion I'm reaching is that I'm going to have to get them custom cut for me. Just throwing a Hail Mary to see if there is anything online I can check out before I do that.
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Am I missing something? They looked like sticks. The sort you could get from any eskrima supplier online. Perhaps I just couldn't see them clearly enough.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Nope that's what they look like to me too

    If all else fails try this


    with this

  4. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    What kata was in that video? What ryuha is it from? Never seen tanjo used like that before.
  5. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

  6. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    I really really hate modern invented two weapon systems. They are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

    The Bear.
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Yeah, the inverted stick thing... I can't think of a less effectual way to swing a stick.
  8. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Hold the stick between your knees and then swing it. Guaranteed, it'll be less effective than nearly anything you can think of. I wonder why it's not in the kata already. Hmmmm.

    Best regards,

  9. monkeywrench

    monkeywrench Valued Member

    We have custom requirements for stick length/thickness. I'm far from an expert, so can't give you much more than that.

    I nearly did something like that! One method is ordering a full-size bo and cutting it to size.

    But my wife ordered a pair of tambos (sticks!) and they ended up being a near-perfect fit for me. So she gave them to me since I had not one stick to my name and she already had at least one functional pair. I'd post a link of the item itself, but I'm not finding it in my email. I believe they're 32" and 3/4 " width with neat looking spiders all over. And light! This is important since I have one semi-gimpy shoulder...old bakery injury. They feel good and I'm very happy with them.

    As for the rest of the posts concerning the efficacy of our custom stick technique, well. I'll see about adding more once I figure it out myself! One aspect I've learned already is that our method is designed with multiple attackers in mind. Thus the sweeping strikes as opposed to a more tight in-close arc.
    Pure speculation on my part, but it seems like working with double sticks is more of the "art" end of martial arts really. But I'm quite sure I'm dead wrong about that. Unless someone attacks you and you happen to have both your sticks right there of course!
  10. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    You have custom requirements for length and thickness (minds out of the gutters, gents...), these are to be personalised to yourself, but you can't give any more information? Then how would you know that the ones you get are near perfect, if you can't give the measurements/requirements you would need? Hmm. Oh, and as to the "efficacy of (your) custom stick technique", if you enjoy it, great. But we are seeing some huge issues in terms of it's efficacy, multiple opponents or not. I don't mean to burst any bubbles (well, not much...), but what is being shown is not something that looks based in anything realistic or solid in terms of weapon use.
  11. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    I would go further and say this art is for display purposes only. Fine for performace art but no martial value.

    The Bear.
  12. monkeywrench

    monkeywrench Valued Member

    Don't worry, my mind was in the gutter too! I know because our head instructors come to you personally and tell you "your stick needs to be this far from your ankle and should fit in your hand thusly." I guess that is more information, huh? lol

    Tell me more about these "huge issues" please.

    And are you just basing this on the video I posted? More detail please.
  13. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    First off, this is nothing against you or your training family. I want you to understand that. This is purely technical discussion as far as I'm concerned.

    That said, here's a couple of things:

    1) The stick is an impact weapon. To do its worst, you need the same things you need when landing a kick or punch. Hip commitment, angling, etc. Now, that's very difficult to do sending two sticks in opposite directions. Because you can't commit your torque to both directions at the same time. With blades, that's less important. They don't need that much momentum. Impact weapons do.

    2) On a related note, the inverted stickwork is the same thing. It looks cool, but it's really only a stop gap measure to be used after a disarm, when the stick simply winds up in your grap that way after you've ripped it out of some other poor sod's grip. Aside from that, it's worthless. Inverted is fine for drawing a weapon across a target, which works okay with blades (again), but doesn't do anything for bludgeons.

  14. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Ha, yeah, that is more information. For example, you can measure, on yourself, exactly how far "this far from your ankle" is, as we don't know how tall you are, or how you are proportioned. For example, in one of my traditions there are specific dimentions for a Sanshakubo, or Hanbo (half staff), which is 90cm for the length, round, with a diameter of 2.4cm. Other traditions have the weapon customised to the bearer, or are standardised at a slightly longer length. So, really, you should know, or be able to discover, exactly what proportions of weapon you would need for your classes.

    First off, I'd just like to reiterate Stuart's comment that this is not an attack, rather a technical discussion of the displayed material.

    - There are no real strikes, just waving around a pair of sticks
    - There are constant and consistent gaps, where the sticks are way out of use and the demonstrator is completely open to being struck
    - There is little to no defensive action in regard to covering or guarding methods with the sticks (when one is used), which is a universal concept with double weapon use.
    - The reverse grip use has no power behind it at all
    - There are numerous combatively illogical actions, many of which contradict the way such weapons are used. This is baton twirling without the twirling.

    Honestly, this has the appearance of adding weapons to a karate kata without having the first clue about them.

    EDIT: Oh, and addressing the "are you basing this off the video I posted", yes. But I will also state that, to those who know what they are looking at, it would take a lot less than that video to come up with the same conclusion about the methods. Really, the video shows more than clearly that there are huge gaps in understanding of weapon use. But again, to reiterate, that is not meant as an attack, just an observation on the weapon methods in this instance. There is no comment on the unarmed sections... in fact, if the indication of the karate portion can be taken from this, then that's not too bad.

    Just to clarify this, though, there are ways of striking with a reverse-grip that are very strong and effective, but that is not what is shown here. It does shorten the range, and requires more skill and body weight behind them, but it can be effective.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2011
  15. monkeywrench

    monkeywrench Valued Member

    I understand and thank you for not making this personal. I really was just wanting more information.

    I don't know if I mentioned this explicitly, but I posted this particular video because you can see the stick length in proportion to this person's size. I don't have a single minute of double-stick training, so I will have to wait a while to make an intelligent reply to your point here.

    As I said above, I don't have any double-stick training yet. But I can tell you that any kata in our system is broken down in detail with bunkai (application) in mind.

    Here are a couple more of our tambo katas. Just for a bit more variety.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iypxZXqa8b0"]CUONG NHU VENEZUELA TEST 2010- TAMBO 1 - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Az41YngY2k"]CUONG NHU IATC 2008 Nidan candidates Tambo 2 Kata - YouTube[/ame]
  16. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Honestly, they just showed the same issues as the first clip - lots of over-swinging of the stick, leaving yourself open, combined with rather dangerous actions (that would leave you quickly clocked over the head by someone who has a clue about what they're doing), and so on. Having bunkai for the kata you have, I must say, just means that the person who came up with it has a belief about it's applicability, not that there actually is any. So while it may get broken down with bunkai in mind, I fear that it doesn't actually have any basis for that.
  17. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi 'monkeywrench',

    The "2008 Nidan ..." video in particular I find interesting, there are elements with both stick and 'unarmed' that I would consider usable/functional and then there are other moves which are more theatrical.

    However over all I am quite impressed - One of the most important things (IMHO) with any weapon training is to be comfortable with the weapon - so that it becomes an extension of the technique that you want to perform - 'twirling' serves a purpose in teaching this casual familiarity with the object. Admittedly in my Karate Jutsu style we always separate functional exercises from agility and familiarity ones, however if your style blends them then that is how it is. Obviously if every 'style' did things the same way, there would only be one style :)
  18. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Passably strong yes. But between the shortened range you mentioned (a range that can still be addressed with a normal grip using what we call 'punyo' in FMA--the butt of the stick) and the drawing effect I mentioned, I think we both agree that it's the least optimal way to swing the stick, even if it's not totally and utterly hopeless.

    What was shown in the kata was suboptimal, even for a set of techniques that are already, in my view, suboptimal.

    I do, however, want to be clear that I'm not suggesting FMA is the only way to do double stick. I've seen really compelling stuff from Thai krabi, for instance. I'm sure there are others as well, without even counting people's successful efforts to apply sword or empty hand theory to the stick. But you and I are in total agreement that there are some glaring technical issues here.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2011
  19. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Throwing the stick in the air and catching it - Pure nonsense.
    Reverse grip with a stick - more nonsense.
    Changing hands mid fight with stick - insane.
    Holding stick in the middle and twirling - for majorettes only.

    Seriously this is not a martial art it's Zumba with sticks.

    The Bear.
  20. monkeywrench

    monkeywrench Valued Member

    I can address the idea of over-swinging I think. It's practicing the full long-range of the weapon specifically the end. Doesn't mean every swing you take in a real situation would look like that. But you train for full range in case you need it.

    The parts where you say you would be left open, I'm gonna hazard a theory. As I said about full-range, that may be a move designed for attacking at range thus leaving yourself open isn't such an issue.

    We're working on a project (at my school actually) called Cuong Nhu Pedia. If we post a tambo instruction video/article, I'll try to remember to post it here.

    There is a bo kata posted however. Just video tho...no article as yet. This is actually one of my head instructors.


    A dissenting opinion! Very nice. lol

    What you said about the weapon being an extension of your technique is something I hear a lot. If your technique is shaky, the weapon will magnify the flaws.

    I'll see if I can get some more info this week in class and see about possibly shedding some light on why these katas are formed the way they are.

    I'm fairly new to stick work, so thanks for all the feedback. That's what it's all about really. I did some some Arnis loooong time ago alongside my Kenpo training, but I forgot most of that. It did seem to specialize in close fighting as I recall. But I could be off base on that. Cuong Nhu in general works "all angles, all levels" and this applies to our stick work as well.
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