looking at this club ndm american kickboxing

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by tel, Sep 2, 2006.

  1. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    hi. does anyone have good or bad things to say about them. thinking of joining, just wana make sure they are ok.
  2. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    Not a group I've heard of. Have you got a link handy?
  3. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

  4. kickboxingidiot

    kickboxingidiot Valued Member

  5. I'm not too keen on this place. It seems like a bit of everything thrown into one and called kickboxing. Some of what you get in the joining pack are a bit dubious, too, namely...

    Quite why you'd want a freestyle karate uniform to wear whilst training kickboxing is beyond me.

    When did nunchaku, staff and stick work become a part of kickboxing? If you want to learn these though, that's cool.

    Erm... ok :s

    Who the hell would pay for a syllabus?

    I'm probably being nitpicky and harsh, but that's just my take on it. What's advertised as kickboxing is really a blend of sport kickboxing (light/semi), karate and weapon work. I also object to the idea of calling kickboxing coaches "Shihan" or "sensi".
  6. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    It doesn't look like the kind of place I'd want to train at, to be honest, but it'll all depend on your focus. For my tastes there were far too many pretty and/ or jumpy kicks on show, and the gi's, belt system and calling the instructor "sensei" don't do it for me. To be honest, it didn't look like any kind of kickboxing I've seen or done, more like TKD. If this is what you're looking for, it'll probably be pretty cool. Looks like a couple of the girls there are kinda cute too. That said, the pic of the instructor pushing down on the student in the splits (I think that's what was happening at least - tiny pic and I've just got up) was absolutely terrifying - no one with half a brain should EVER try that sort of stretching method
  7. kickboxingidiot

    kickboxingidiot Valued Member

    What JCH and Sever just said fully echoes the same sentiments that I had been thinking on first sight of the website.

    Now Im glad that JCH said what he did or he'd probably accuse me of "slagging off"/Nit picking :p

    Im also glad that Sever being a moderator said what he did too.

    Now heres my views.

    1. Never heard of ANY of those fighters/world champions.

    2. Who did these world champions fight to get their titles? Someone down the road?

    Now the 2 above are very valid. They are what cheapens the sport and makes Joe public not respect kickboxing the same way as Boxing and thaiboxing are respected.

    Now just imagine someone with say 6 months of thaiboxing and maybe bits and bobs of boxing training from his younger days(and can box properly) were to walk in and spar with their "champions" ?
    I can honestly see somebody like who i mentioned tearing into them and causing them distress.

    Now that guy will think " these kickboxing champions? what a joke" and he will speak to his mates in the pub and say " Kickboxing is a joke, waste of time!"

    So clubs of that model cheapen kickboxing in my opinion.

    Now as for the following issues:

    1. GI/Freestyle suit in Kickboxing?
    NO way!

    T shirt/ Vest (could even be a club T shirt /vest)
    + either Full contact bottoms/ MMA shorts/Boxing shorts or even Muay thai shorts = YES.

    2. Calling a kickboxing instructor Sensei? Whatever floats your boat!
    Calling them Shihan = Outdated in my view

    3.Belts in kickboxing? Why not there is a syllabus so why not the belts?
    Anybody who holds a Black belt in kickboxing then slags off having belts in kickboxing is being a Hypocrite in my opinion.

    If there is a syllabus to learn then why not gradings? Why not belts?

    The club is basically a freestyle karate club with ELEMENTS of kickboxing.
  8. No comment ;)

    From what I could tell (on a quick glance), the only one who claimed to be a world champion was the sensei guy, and that world title was for "Forms" :p All the others held titles from the NDM - the company with which this club is affiliated to. So as I'm guessing not many people competed in their world championships, this probably isn't a major achievement. I haven't heard of any of them either.

    This is my main gripe with kickboxing... there should be some sort of unification. The problem is, if joe random walks into his gym and says "oh, so you're a world champion? who did you beat?", what is to stop the guy saying "I won it on the 12th June against a guy called Tom"? I don't believe he's just wildly making claims which are obviously not true. If the NDM or whatever had a world championships in which 10 people competed, and this guy won, he can honestly say that he is a world champion. We know he is not, but he can make that claim. See the problem? Agree entirely with your point about the fact that it cheapens the sport - it does!

    It's bringing silly tradition into the sport, just for the sake of it. A simple bow as a form of respect - fine. Bowing and scraping to your coach and calling him master, shihan, sifu or whatever - silly.

    I hold a black belt in kickboxing, but I'm going to state my opinion on belts: unless there is a unified ranking system for every form of kickboxing then belts are not worth the £3.99 they cost, IMHO. There should be one body in the UK who defines the syllabus and grading criteria. Otherwise, petty squabbles occur about what should be done for each belt, when sparring should occur (;) don't bite) and other such iussues. If we all know where we stand in relation to one another, then everything works. However, I feel this is for another thread. The problem I'm talking about can be related to this issue, though. The owner of this club is a 7th DAN. Now if an orange belt from another club comes and tools him, doesn't the shihan look stupid :)

    Agreed.. he only has gloves on for half of the photos, wears a karate suit and is doing some weird throat hold type thing. A bit of everything all tossed together.
  9. kickboxingidiot

    kickboxingidiot Valued Member

    There will never really be unification.
    If there is no unification for boxing how can we have unification for kickboxing which is really lower down the financial scale???

    Now as for world titles, there will always be GOOD titles and Crap ones.

    As for Black belts ,...... well i think there should be a common core of knowledge that SHOULD be known by a kickboxing Black Belt.

    Both the above discussions belong in another thread.

    Suffice it to say that the club that has been mentioned is not one of the clubs that I would like to associate myself with unless I was looking for some easy wins to pad out our fighters records perhaps :p

    Its based in Farnborough and Camberley!!!

    Thats the home of a REAL world kickboxing champion, Gary Turner.

    Do they belong on the same level as the likes of Smiler?
    Me thinks not
  10. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    cool.where does gary turner train?
  11. kickboxingidiot

    kickboxingidiot Valued Member


    Class Tuition

    Gary teaches K1 style kickboxing at:

    The Budokan Martial Arts Centre
    Burrell Road
    (off Station Road)

    7 - 8.30pm: Technical K1 style kickboxing
    8.30 - 9.30pm: Sparring

    Good luck mate.
  12. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    You won't go wrong with Gary Turner - he's been in the K-1 ring many times including fighting to a (some would say "political") draw with highly ranked fighter Michael MacDonald. I had a couple of chats with him in my Sherdog days (pre getting hit with t3h b4n ;)) and he seemed like a cool guy. Good luck with it
  13. Of course, but it's nice to dream :p There's also far more sanctioning bodies in kickboxing, making it harder. Then again, I can think of a lot of sports with unification that are MUCH lower down the financial scale (á la Judo). This is my last word on the subject though because, as you say, it belongs in another thread.
  14. ndm

    ndm New Member

    Greetings from NDM Martial Arts,

    If you would like any questions answered pls feel free to contact us directly at www.ndmmartialarts.com. If a person has not have been a member with us before then any opinions are just opinions without any backing or knowledge (this is NOT meant rudely, it is simply the truth).
    To answer a few of the messages:

    - We teach Freestyle Sport Karate AND American Kickboxing. 2 martial arts, 1 company on seperate nights. NOT all mixed together. I agree, kickboxing should be kickboxing, NOT kickboxing WITH weapons.
    On our site it clearly states on the very first page to visit which style you would like information on. The uniforms and equipment are specific to each system. We will attempt to make this clearer.
    Eg weapons, FSK uniform for FSK...
    - An NDMMAA INTERNAL training course simply means a course run solely with NDM Martial Arts members only
    Eg a visiting world champion takes a session or course or a specialised training session with an NDMMAA instructor
    - Sever is right, it depends on what you are looking for in a system & if that club can provide it. Our main focus is on technique, accuracy, speed & power. To many kickboxing clubs are just about kicking the crap out of people we 3 techniques. With respect this IS effect in many ways. We train martial artists & IF they wish to be competitors. No we don't do full contact regularly and yes we still teach advanced kicking & aerial techniques, martial arts is also about being an artist in your chosen area. Why limit to 3 moves? A good fighter has 5-8 moves he or she uses, but he has 300 other moves if he wants to use them. Never limit yourself my instructor taught me.
    - There are presently around 400 world & national "championships" in "Kickboxing" in the world & even more "Open style" world titles. We just went along to a C.S.W tournament and got some. We fought, we won, we put on site to congratulate our students.
    - Sensei reminds us of the past and where the roots of kickboxing comes from. This is just our way. Other people doing things different, but I don't try to have opinions on them. 5th degree black belt & above is Shihan this shows beginners the seniority of the chief instructor. No bull just the facts of why the name. In my opinion, a martial artist is measured on experience. I'm not just a kickboxer, I prefer martial artist. I dan graded in Freestyle Karate and decided to started teaching this as a second style. Feel feel to check all our instructors qualifications at www.ndmmartialarts.com.
    - I don't feel the need to defend myself on my achievements, but my students have achieved only what site says. As said, I agree many people hold titles, we just put what we have competed and recieved. All pictures and achievements on our site ARE NDMMAA only pictures.
    - All are welcome to their opinion on training. Kickboxing is a sport martial art. By keeping the discipline and respect high (by remembering certain levels of tradition) we can train our students hard and well, because they feel respect for their seniors who have "walked the path before them" and determination in their training. A balance of sport and discipline to achieve much.
    - If a person truelly wishes to be a martial artist, they will want to know the true strengths and weaknesses of the their own style. If we do nothing but box & kick we limit ourselves in other areas. By teaching some hand to hand combat, a few simple ju-jitsu techniques, wing chun, thai and floor fighting. We give the students a better chance at street level self defence, when and if the need ever arose to protect themselves. But we always remember our core style. Freestyle Karate has its Karate techniques / Kickboxing its boxing & Kicking.
    - Gary Turner is a friend of mine. A great guy & he rates us. Not on a full contact level, we don't try to say we are ON a full contact level, thats not what we aim at but as a club & company he has said we are good. But lets leave talking about other people.

    All the best to all of you, in your training and goals.
    Anyone is welcome to attend our classes, we aim to help beginners to get started and have been around for 16 years now as a full time club. We have trained 7 individuals to black belt level (from complete beginner) and don't wish to "prove" ourselves, we just want to help those who would like to learn. As said at beginning, its what the student is specifically looking for from a club in the end.

    Shihan Main
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2006

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