Long vs short combos on the pads

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by neems, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. neems

    neems Valued Member

    I've always preferred short combos sometimes chained together e.g 1,2 slip 2,3 move.

    The head coach at the Thai boxing gym I'm at now favours very long combos,they're sometimes broken up with a counter by the pad holder,but they're still much longer.
    I don't actually see why they're in any way better.

    Do any of you find any benefits to the longer combos?
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Only if you're "freestyling" on the pads.

    I don't see any point in memorising long combinations.
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    They're not supposed to all land. They are all individual combinations put into one. Very common in Thai.
  4. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    You're not learning choreography that you're expected to replicate in a fight; you're learning many, many skills including flow, cadence, posture, timing, distance, footwork, and so on. Don't take everything your coach teaches you at face value. There will often be much more going on than you realise.
  5. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Very much this :)

  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    This is true, but I don't believe long scripted pad combos are the most efficient way to do it.
  7. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Make the combinations too long and it breeds bad habits :
    Hands drop, people pull their punches short in order to complete the combination, footwork can go out the window, as does distancing.

    In most cases unless the pad holder is exceptional and keps picking people up Mon the above its better to keep it simple and straight forward, its boxing not thai but watch Freddy roach on the pads to see how it should be done.
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    What I dislike most about scripted pad work is that people stop actively seeking out targets because they know where the pads are going to be. Even if they are meticulous about guard and footwork they will still begin to pre-empt the placement of the pads, which does nothing for anybody involved IMHO. Might as well do kata :p
  9. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    Never really saw any long combinations taught when in Thailand. It's mostly freestyle padwork at the higher levels.

    Tend to see the long combinations taught more in Kickboxing and MMA gyms.

    Not knocking it though. I've seen some very good amateur and pro fighters produced through this system of padwork.
  10. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    What you looking to do with pad work is breed good habits.

    Specifically we are looking at technique, power, retraction speed and spontaneity.

    Tommy Thompson is his book comprehensive boxing technique says too many pad holders have little appreciation of the perception and visualisation of the techniques they are expecting the boxer to respond with.

    Random punching is technique at the highest level, but does rely on a creative pad holder.

    Single and short 3-4 punch scripted punching is a requirement at lower and mid range levels for good habit forming.

    Obviously this should also be part of any higher level training to keep the tools sharp.

    The same arguments can be levelled at the heavy bag and it's about visualisation and aliveness, rather than combinations.
  11. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    The places I've trained typically do one or two long drills to get those long drill benefits mentioned above, but 95% of the pad training was 2-4 count combos. I'd say the big advantage of long drills is they make you link combos rather than disengaging after each combo.
  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick


    I hope nobody thought I was advocating long pad combinations for the majority of the time. I was merely highlighting the subtle benefits that the OP may not have been aware of.
  13. neems

    neems Valued Member

    Do you not think you can practice these with shorter broken up combos?

    Especially if you're changing the angle between combos/countering/catching kicks/slipping/blocking etc

    Though thinking about it ,it may be easier for the coach to see all that you mentioned being demonstrated in a large class,if everything's slower and without sudden changes in the line of attack.
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I tend to use shorter combos, but if someone is doing a 4-5 count combo, then moving back out of range due a reply, then re-entering for another 5 count, then that is a valuable drill.

    Not everyone falls over after taking 4 punches, so seeing how someone can deliver multiple strikes while maintaining balance, speed and their own defences will require longer drills.
  15. neems

    neems Valued Member

    I'm talking about long virtually unbroken combos versus shorter linked combos.

    A simple example would be

    1,2,3 slip 2,3 change the angle 2,3,3 - which is three short combinations linked as opposed to 1,2,3,2,3,2,3,3 which is just one long combination.

    It's also worth mentioning these are built up with 2 or 3 steps added per round.

    If anything it's harder to keep balance,range,defence in good order with shorter sharper combinations intermixed with movement or defences than it is to do when you're just rattling off shots.
  16. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I think you've correctly worded what I was trying to explain.
  17. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Fast forward to 24.40mins for a talk about what shouldn't happen with the mitts
    Watch the whole thing for a how to on holding the mitts for most people, interestingly his advanced video doesn't have longer combos but more reactively and setting up shots


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