Don't worry, it isn't. :evil: That's okay, James, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably be doing the exact same thing. The KSW that I learned was more *reality based* if you know what I mean. If it wasn't, I would've moved on to something that was (I always got along fine with most jujitsu folks, since their tactics were so similar to ours, likewise with kempo guys - but they don't focus much on traditional weaponry which is one of my FAVORITE aspects about kuk-sool, just so you know).
see thats the problem with this quote, nobody ever said they did in the first place! think he may have been in a smart **** mood that day :hat: AHHHHHHHHHH BRUCE LEE BASHING !! :Aegis::ban::Aegis::ban::Aegis::ban: haha anyway im sure that most of the people here understand that the board CANT hit back because its an inanimate object, using 'don't' suggests the boards chooses not to... all in all, he mite aswell of replied with this! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y"]Zombie Kid Likes Turtles - YouTube[/ame] -J
Just so you know...there IS some more reality based KS being practised. It's called Kong Shin Bup these days and taught at NKMAA schools (though not all of them) and is, to some extent, what KSW used to be. I hold a 4th dahn in KSW and 5th dahn in KSHKD with NKMAA and recently failed a SECOND dahn KSB test under GM Timmerman, which maybe gives you some idea of how tough the test was. It started with a two hours fitness test (normally longer but reduced due to time constraints) during which we ran 5k, had icy water tipped over our heads (several times) carried logs up and downhill, did 100s of push ups and sit ups (some holding the logs), jumped through hoops, had medicine balls dropped on us and were hit (hard) all over with a shinai etc etc etc. At the indoor test which followed immediately afterwards, all 17 (yes 17) of the first dahn and 3 second dahn forms were performed 4 times, and we also had to perform any other forms we knew (up to Oon Hak Hyung)at least twice, including weapons We also have 4 extra staff forms, two extra dahn bong forms, fan, cane and juhl bong forms. There are also about 60 "extra" techniques in the 2nd dahn syllabus, although again we had to perform every technique we knew. Each technique had to finish with your partner tapping out, because they had to. Fancy, unneccessary flips, were rewarded with more push ups! Some sets were performed against unfamiliar attacks. IE Bahng Too Ki against Too Ki. Breaking was 4 x 1" boards (each) for ahp chagi and flying side kick (over 3 people) and 4 hand strikes, 2 boards each (Pyung soo, yuk pyung soo, sudo and yuk sudo). Total test time about 8 hours, continous. It was by far the hardest test I have ever done. An opinion also held by another candidate who also holds 4th dahn KSW. I will try again next year even though it may mean a trip to Canada, because I think it is worth getting. I am not telling you all this to boast in any way....after all I FAILED! LOL But just to let you know that there is more out there in the KS arena than you may realise... PS...who else has ever failed a test in a KS based art?
Why not just use concrete or steel plating, or convicted or even accused child molesters. Just a thought............
i can imagine the possibilities of tugi and bang tugi, but if the tugi is initiated properly, wouldn't they be difficult to negate? for instance, the twist in 1-4 unbalances the upper body to enable the throws. ah well, sounded like a challenging and fun event
C'mon, SsangKall, you know as well as anybody that "bang tugi" is a misnomer. I always preferred the more obvious name of "judo maki" for that set of 10 techniques (cuz it's plain to see by the 'entry' that that's what it really is). If using the name of "bang tugi" then it ought to be taught BEFORE the set known as "tugi" rather than after, as that way it wouldn't appear to be a set of counters for tugi (which it isn't).
yudo maki? that IS more my language now. basically, in yudomaki we are intercepting various points of a typical shoulder throw. although tugi 1 and 3 are shoulder throws, they begin with an arm twist. ssang su would seem more fitting a counter.
The way I learned tugi, of the first 4 techniques only 3 & 4 are shoulder throws (3 to the front & 4 to the rear), whereas 1 & 2 twist the arm and throw by means of additional torque derived from spinning in towards them (if they don't budge, the arm gets decimated). If you lose the proper torque for some reason, or it's insufficient to get them off their feet, you have the shoulder throw as a back-up plan since the stepping pattern is the exact same for even & odd techniques with this group of four. Numbers 5 & 6 are hip throws (front & rear), and 7 & 8 also go in opposite directions, let's call them displacement throws where you get under their center of gravity and pitch them off balance (7 utilizing your spinning momentum & 8 relying on an elbow lock). The next 2 techniques can also be paired, the throw being effected by a combo elbow/shoulder lock, 9 driving forward to upset their stability and 10 dragging them over your shoulder (again the 2 techniques going in opposite directions). The last 3 techniques use a cantilever mechanism to throw your opponent (i.e. applying force in opposing directions to the same part of the body). The neck, elbow, and waist are targeted respectively for numbers 11, 12, & 13, which complete the set. If I lost you on any of my explanations (due to your numbering for the set possibly being different), I'd be happy to email you a scan of this set from the KSW textbook, just to make sure there's no confusion.
no sir. you are very correct. that is why i was wondering how the hip, neck, feet, and elbow checks in yudomagi could be used effectively against the arm twists, hip throws, and leg reaps in tugi. the test kiwest had sounded fun, it is just that the one snippet about using yudomagi/bangtugi against tugi peaked my interest.
My bad... Since you didn't quote or otherwise reference KIWEST in your post #30, I didn't realize you were commenting on something which had already been broached. It did strike me as rather odd that you were suggesting that bang tugi could be an effective measure against tugi, but I get it now, you weren't (you were siding with me, yay!). The best counter I know to do against tugi is acrobatics, but if executed as destructions instead of throws, there's little you can do to prevent injury (the counter would still be acrobatics, but you'd hafta be pretty damn quick and even then, you still might incur some joint strains/dislocations). The sinking of your weight, which is the PRIMARY thing done in bang tugi, could work against tugi, but timing would be critical in order to throw the flow of their stepping sequence out of whack (plus some counter grabs so they couldn't twist your arm as much). Similar to the way some of the latter bang tugi techniques work (i.e. using the knowledge of their spinning/twisting in place in order to set up for the throw, and making them over-rotate by pushing in the right place at the right moment), it IS possible to do something akin to this maneuver in tugi, provided you can evade the jointlock (BTW, that's why the jointlock is there, to maximize the success of throwing the guy).
sound awesome! not even as a test just as a day of training! gahhh i wish WKSA KS was much more old school.
i remember in the class where master yang was teaching the techniques, he stated that the techniques start with the twists, but he also mentioned the 'tu' in tugi may also be interpreted as twist(hanja help, sir?)
Depends what you mean by fighting? If you mean purposely trying to injure each other, then none. But I see KS as a self-defence system, rather than a fighting system. Therefore, for me anyway, reality based training does not mean that you have to try to batter one another, but just that you need to have more realistic attacks to demonstrate technique. For example, when being grabbed, kicked, punched etc, the attacks had to be at a realistic speed/power and if a technique was messed up then we were not allowed to start again, but had to carry on with whatever technique came naturally.
Not designed that way maybe, but still, by using the principles of bang tooki, many tooki can be countered.....I would ad that this was a test...not of memory of technique, but mainly of ability to use what we knew to best effect. FWIW
Yes it was a great day. You would always be welcome at our "old" school if you are ever in the area......
