Live Blade in Self Defense?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by monkeywrench, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    and fighting under professional thai rules and coaching myself I can tell you thats absolute testicles. A cross uses the exact same basic mechanics as the elbow that girl displayed yet produces far greater power.

    Interestingly, Frank also had an MMA team and the big themselves up as one of the best MMA teams in germany. Their standup and understanding of it was terrible. Frank knows what he's doing with his ground game but that's about it. I respect people for getting in the ring, whether they're good or bad, win or lose, but it doesn't automatically infer that they have some degree of skill.
  2. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    It's the video you have selected to display what you teach at a self defecne seminar is it not? So your promoting your self defence seminars using that video.

    I have the evidence of you teaching and demoing poor self defence techniques with no ability to explain them adequately.

    Breaking posture and pulling a person towards you is not bad. It's a great idea especially if you dont want to get punched.

    this is not true it is totally possible 'thrust' whilst maintaining use of both your hands and arms for the purposes of restraint whilst you carry out your violating actions. Anyone who doubts that, you can try it for yourself right now it's a piece of cake. The whole premise is BS and you are using it to validate a totally unlikely position of assault which is laughable.

    back peddle. You were caught saying one thing and demoing another... how was that down to editing?

    where did it say that?

    you demoed the technique as an imobilising technique which it clearly is not. You then illustrated that from that possition of imbolity the assailent would be susceptible to elbow strikes if they attempted to progess further. Further more you wouldnt need to pass guard to side control you enter into missionary position from there just as easily.

    no it doesnt.. I can't even beliebve anyone would think otherwise.Plus you need more than one point of pressure to have an effective open guard.

    You can strangle a girl during missionary sex if she's into that sort of thing.

    Why would I be worried about keeping my body weight off a girl if I was raping them? I'd want as much bodyweight on them as possible.
  3. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Yes, a cross uses the same basic mechanics as elbow to generate power; however, crosses are harder to execute, and harder to aim. They take more time to learn per unit skill than an elbow. When time is at a premium (such as in a seminar), elbows are a more efficient use of time.

    Also, I am not a ground guy first and foremost. My fighters win with striking.
  4. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Yes, yes you can. However, you can't hold a knife threatening their throat and do the same thing. You have a knife in their throat, but then they are dead.
  5. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    "Goldsmith Kung Fu is proud to host its own mixed martial arts (MMA) fight team. Co-taught by Sifu Jason Goldsmith and D'Juan Owens of ECSA, the team trains on regularly Sundays after our normal classes and at additional rotating times. Fight team training is neccesary if you want to compete in amateur (or professional) mixed martial arts bouts, and is also ideal if you are looking for an intense workout with focus on enhancing your submission wrestling skills."

    Sounds like hobbyist MMA. Training once a week? Think you've got anyone who can stand up to James Doolan here?

    [ame=""]YouTube - James Doolan vs James McGuiness[/ame]

    Interestingly, I went to a seminar of his where he spent two hours basically working on jab, cross, hook, right bodykick. It was the most useful and insightful seminar I've ever been to.
  6. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Sounds like a good seminar, and that is a damn good combination.

    As for the quote about the class from my site, if you notice, is our dedicated fight team day, that everyone must come to. That is in addition to the 5 other classes per week, and the times the fight team gets together outside of regular class, which, when someone has a fight in the next 3 months, is 5 days a week for 2-3 hours a day, during the middle of the day.

    And do I have anyone who can stand with that guy, I have no idea. If he is a pro fighter, then no. MMA has been legal in NC for 2 years, and my fight team is relatively new, with a young stable. No one is pro besides our coach, D'Juan.
  7. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    I fail to see the problem.
  8. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Also, for that seminar, did you have a bunch of people who had never thrown a punch before in it, or a bunch of people who knew how to throw all the basic strikes involved?
  9. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Your hand has to be in the air to hold a knife to threaten someone. Their base is consequently disrupted.

    As for raping a dead person. Do I start with the problems of rape, or the problems of dead?
  10. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    It would also be a far more useful "self defense" seminar than that shown in the video.

    The seminar was mixed with pros and complete beginners with nothing more than one or two sessions previouslt trained.
  11. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    No. You can hold your body weight on your elbows, you can allow your weight to be carried by the victim, you can underhook the arm etc all these things allow the knife hand to move freely... anyone who is unsure can them on a prone punchbag or something.
  12. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    There is a difference between training fighters in a seminar, and training people for self defense in a seminar. This is what you don't realize. In the end, the points converge; good fighting is good self defense.

    However, when you have completely naive (no classes, ever) people who have 2 hours; you teach what can maximally increase their odds of success. That is elbows and knees, and not jab/cross.
  13. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    That's not true. There are loads of ways to hold a knife to someones throat in missionary without compromising your base. you could hold their head back by the hair with one arm and hol dth e kife to their throat and maintain base with your elbows knees and by making the victim carry your weight also as just one example.

    I don't know whats doing my head in more, your crappy assertion or the fact you are making me think about how ways to rape people.
  14. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    1) The victim won't help you hold their weight up.

    2) That hurts the penis a lot. As I said, we (wife and I) tested all of these things. Holding a knife while holding weight up makes life surprisingly difficult, and easier to counter.
  15. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    It is. And that's my problem with what you're teaching. Judging from what you're saying - that a knee and an elbow are much easier to learn than a jab cross combo - you don't have a clue about standup. Each of them is every bit as technical and takes just as long to learn as a jab cross. But a jab cross is far more useful and more likely to work in a larger variety of situations.

    By the sounds of it, you simply don't know how to teach any of the techniques correctly and thats why you think they're easier for people to learn. Like I said, there were people at that seminar who had no idea how to throw a punch and they came away with a jab/cross that was 10 times better than that which they had before.
  16. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    but hey, I have respect that you train hard, respect that you get your guys to spar and roll etc and respect that you put your guys up for fights etc. I'm aware that I'm coming across pretty harsh and you seem like an alright guy. I just have very specific opinions on what constitutes REAL "self defense" and I think the average person could probably do nothing better than a couple of proper MMA or boxing sessions.
  17. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    They don't need to... you make them carry your weight through their body... you know like in grappling? not by them holding you up...for gods sake.

    Yeah... I think you must have been doing it wrong.

    Thats why you shouldn't do it especially when you dont need to. Your trying to hang the viability of your technique on a total fallacy. And I for one am not gonna be bullshitted about that.

    I also find it hilarious that you feel it implausible to properly teach a jab cross in a two hour seminar yet expect people to be skilled enough to grapple and strike their way out of a knife rape... are you insane?
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
  18. Simo

    Simo New Member

    Dear Master Betty,

    I respect that you obviously know your stuff when it comes to fighting. However, as the woman who developed a large amount of our women's self defense cirricullum, including all the anti-molestation techniques, I am offended at your lack of understanding the needs of a woman taking a 2 hour self defense seminar, and ONLY that seminar.

    Jab/cross and elbow/knee both require training to do correctly, I will not argue with that. However, with only 125 lbs of mass, any closed fist punch must be far more accurate and technically correct to deliver power than an elbow. That is why we choose to teach elbows for self defense. While they are just as technical as punches, they are far more forgiving to a new learner.

    For a punch to deliver power, both timing and accuracy are needed for a person's mass to power the strike (as I am sure you know). Punches are more difficult than elbows due to added arm extension. Additionally, since women are usually much smaller than their attackers, any loss of that mass due to lack of technique results in a huge loss of power to the punch. Elbows are easier for noobs to aim and time since the way we teach it, the power is obviously strait from the hip, very little arm movement. This makes it much more probable that the woman will deliver all her bodymass into the strike and get more power, even if her aim is a bit off. Additionally, closed fist punches are more dangerous to teach to noobs for self defense because they are not trained to avoid breaking their hand on someone's face. Therefore, it is more practical to teach elbows for self defense than punches if you assume the person will only be there for 2 hours and will never train regularly.

    I hope this clarifies our school's position for you. If you have any more concerns please let me know. I'd be pleased to discuss how I feel women's self defense differs from MMA/fighting (which I also train).

    Thank you.
  19. Simo

    Simo New Member

    Dear Killa Gorrillas,

    I am tempted to enquire as to your relationship status, but I am afraid you may have already revealed the answer to that on your own.

    Until you have a vagina capable of being raped from missionary, I suggest you keep your obviously ignorant comments to yourself.

    In response to your comments, in NO WAY can you achieve significant penatration while on one arm and positioning the knife in deadly position (over an artery) if the woman is aware and resisting. Which is (as you have stated) why the counter works. If you need further explination for this, I suggest you ask a woman you are close to.

    Finally, this technique is more advance and ASSUMES that the woman is willing to die to prevent the rape. As SifuJason explained, we do teach that it is up to each person to make that judgement call for themselves. Waking up pre or mid rape under a guy with a knife is a horrible situation that will likely lead to molestation and death. Even a low percentage technique is better than nothing.
  20. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    Well alas I am currently a single man and therefore have no way of exploring rape with a significant other however I'm not a virgin if that's something that's on your mind.

    Why not elaborate on why this is not possible? and if rape from a missionary position is not possible then why practice a defence to a rape attempt from that position?

    Yeah it's an unrealistic position then(the way th eknive is held and being balanced on one arm), as I said yes? And I see zero reason why you would have to be supporting your body weight on one arm while holding a knife to a persons throat from a position between their legs.

    well yeah I agree... but the threat presented in the video is unrealistic and the technique is basically a last ditch attempt that will most likely result in certain death but is not presented as such there... it's presented as a viable escape plan. That's the crux of my criticism

    • a unrealistic attack/threat
    • met with a suicidal technique
    • presented as viable self defence.

    The hip check Is exactly the same. Even though Jason has described the technique as being a non violent measure against unwanted sexual advance subesquently he didn't present the technique as such in the video (editing aside as there are no cuts in his dialouge). With that said a single foot on the hip with do nothing to stop a person advancing on you its just not going to present any kind of obstacle at all.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011

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