Live Blade in Self Defense?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by monkeywrench, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Regardless of whether people agree or disagree with the SD portions shown, it is still incredibly foolish to train with any kind of live weapon where there is an element of unpredictability. Using weapons in a live training situation should be restricted for the safety of all involved and to avoid risking complacency. Complacency is what ends up seriously injuring or killing people.
  2. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    As am I, and I am also a grappler. This technique is very context (mid-sexual assault) specific, which changes things from a grappling perspective, given how things must line up, not get bent, allow for thrusting of a particular form, etc. I didn't realize how different things were in many ways from regular grappling till I tested it. If this was a drill for sweeping while being held a knife point, it would completely fail. That is my point.
  3. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    I bolded the key point in your statement. That is why all live knife training is done compliantly, and hence with no unpredictability.
  4. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    You see, that really bothers me. Why exaggerate?

    And that really, really bothers me, because it seems to say that you're happy to mislead people with no knowledge and surely they are exactly the people you have to be ultra straight with?

    And it really, really, really bothers me that this might be the explanation.

    I've commented on the training provided by JWT before and one thing he is extremely good at is being aware of what he says and how he says it, constantly relating it to legal issues, but above all ensuring that the advice he gives is correct.

    Being filmed for something that is designed for distribution to non martial artists absolutely requires that you do not mislead them with any inaccurate information, it doesn't somehow adumbrate your responsibilities and allow you to talk about people being knocked out in life or death situations.

    As for taking swipes at MAP's membership, it in no way distracts attention from the fact that by your own admission the film shows you exaggerating for the TV, promoting things which are technically inaacurate, but assuming it's OK because your audience are not martial artists and coming out of it happy because it was good press.

  5. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Sifu Jason,

    No one was mentioning sweeping. It is very hard to sweep from a closed guard position anyway, to sweep you usually move to an open guard. I was thinking that on a soft surface like a bed, because you are sinking into the mattress, a reversal might be possible whereby the attacker is caught leaning to one side off balance, riding their momentum could allow for coming up in the mount position.

    I'm also not a fan of ever grabbing a weapon arm before control is established (e.g. the attacker is stunned or unbalanced first). There are exceptions, so I only generally speaking here. So my concern was with the initial direction the knife is brought. I wondered, Jason, how did the exercise fare if the woman on bottom checked the knife hand to her right (the direction the blade is pointing), then establishing a two on one to the knife arm as soon as possible to point the knife at the attacker's left shoulder and thrusting the knife into the attacker's left shoulder. I'm speculating this could all work with gravity assistance from dropping the hips (like doing a crunch).

    How did something like this work in your experiences?
  6. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    Yeah. I thought it was interesting. :)
  7. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Anytime you introduce a live weapon into the equation, there is always that element of unpredictability. This is why most military organizations and law enforcement departments use training weapons for any kind of drill in which something could go wrong, no matter how remote. One slip is all it takes.

    There is enough mistakes WITH training equipment. We don't need more caused by foolish training methods. There are deaths across the world every year from training equipment alone.

    I would also argue that compliant weapon drills are bollocks, but that's risking a thread derailment.
  8. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    As someone who's ex-girlfriend used to pretty much only ever get off on being tied up, slapped and generally treated like an abused sex slave I can tell you THAT particular statement is horse poo.

    It is possible.

    It feels pretty damn good too if you can stay in character.
  9. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

  10. Amber

    Amber Valued Member

    Bull. Go try it out. Hold the other person down at the chest and you've got an excellent position to rape her, the knife should be more than enough of a threat to stop her thrashing too much.

    The easiest position to commit rape from is from behind but missionary is not difficult if you're willing to use a bit of force.

    EDIT: Looks like Master Betty beat me to the punch. By about a day. =P My mistake.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    ^^ THIS ^^
  12. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    Creepy how would you know how to rape someone :eek:
  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    It always starts off with a punch or two, then you become friends, and before you know it, you are Master Betty's next X-girl friend.

    I'm just kidding, Amber. It is good to see others commenting on the thread to give perspective.
  14. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    This is the kind of promotional video I like:

    [ame=""]YouTube - Learn Self Defense for Women[/ame]
  15. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    That's what I hate about this thread its made me spend the last couple days thinking of the best way to rape :cry:
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  16. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    I've said all I can on this. I doubt the accuracy and validity of your research/testing if this is what you've found. I think you are purposfully exagerating the difficulty in order to validate the technique that you are selling in your demo.

    People don't want caveats they want technicaly accurate information and basic honesty.

    apparantly not...

    I have not stated that I have tons of grappling experience, just that I have had enough to evaluate what you are showing from a valid technical standpoint bolstered with suffuicient experience. FYI I only have just over 3 years grappling experience split between freestyle wrestling and BJJ with some cursory judo crosstraining.
    Like yourself I frequent both Bullshido and MAP and I can say with absolute certainty that I am not below the grappling ability/experience of the average user. There are some very experienced martial artists on Bullshido and there are some on here too... including pro fighters and grappling instructors. MAP has a much broader intake of poster and unlike Bullshido is not unified by a pervasive ideology towards the martialarts. Your argument however is nothing more than an asinine strawman.

    I would just like to add in closing that if you are not unhappy with that video then you should be as it is clearly peddling dangerous misinformation and serves not to demonstrate effective and pragmatic methods of self protection but to promote yourself, your school and to self aggrandise.
  17. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    exactly. Its pretty creepy.
  18. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    It is not a sbad as it sounds Blade.

    Take someone like JWT as an example, someone who teaches self defence.

    Knowing the crime statistics for the area he is teaching in, the types of attacks, sexual or not, if the knife was involved and so on are important aspects that will change the way the lesson/lecture/seminar in delivered.
  19. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    I know what they mean i just pointed out that writing like this....

    Um.....Yah. lol. talking about the best way to rape! lol. I know the people here and what they mean and what they're trying to do, but southpaw said...Something about talking about how to rape! Just the way it sounds. Lol.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011

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