Lifting Qs

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Mr Punch, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. Mr Punch

    Mr Punch Homicidal puppet

    1) If I can't finish the required number of reps I've been changing down ASAP and finishing the number with a lower weight to go out on a high note. Is this a good idea?

    2) I can usually finish the reps with the weights I've chosen (though of course, sometimes it's struggle), but then I find 75 secs (specified by my programme) too short to recover so I'm not so strict in keeping to the recovery period. Is this bad? Should I choose slightly lighter weights so I can stick to the timing, should I just fight through it even if it means not being able to complete the final set, or am I OK in extending the rest period by 10-20 secs?

    3) When should I do yoga (I'm pretty much a newb at it)? I guess that elongating muscles to that extent is bad just before weights. What about a day before (training weights three times a week I only get alternate days rest)? What about immediately after (i.e. will that kind of stretching hamper my muscle recovery?)?

    4) When should I do isometrics (and slow sloooow stance work)? Although the stance work I do is a hard workout in itself. It's a form of endurance. According to studies cited by Cosgrove and Schuler, aerobic endurance work interferes with weights for strength: if you do alternate days the gains are in endurance to the detriment of strength, so you should do it together with your weights, or after and before a full day's rest. So what about anaerobic endurance?

    5) Sometimes I only get to train after say, 9:30 at night. If I follow John Berardi's diet guidelines, and those of various others, I should be eating a certain amount of carbs and protein every two hours at least three times to aid recovery/growth (the amount according to various calculations I've come across for my bodyweight of 82 kg is 68 g of carbs and 36 g of protein). If I train late at night I find:

    a) I get really drained the next day... basically have to eat and sleep a lot. And/or

    b) I get gippy guts! I guess my body can't take that much protein! (Though this is only if I train late at night and try to squeeze in more nutrients than I would normally).

    Anybody any advice for good ways of getting the right balance of nutrients if I train late at night... I dunno, slow release carbs/proteins...? Is it something that gets better as my body adapts more to this kind of heavy training? I don't want to have to give up training late because with my life it's the only time I have sometimes, but I can't help but feel that my training goes to waste if I don't eat right afterwards and feel washed out the next day.

    The usual wild guesses/educated answers welcome!

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Custom Volusia

    Custom Volusia Valued Member

    Well...without knowing more of your routine...which would be a good thing to post. Reps/sets/types of exercise/training split, I can answer a couple of the questions

    1) What you are doing by reducing the weight is called a "drop set" it is a common practice amongst weight lifters and is a good way to break through plateaus. The norm is to drop the weight by 20%, but do what works for you. So yes, it is a good thing to do until you can get through your entire rep/sets with your weight. Once you get to that point, spend a bit of time (two or three, maybe more, workout sessions) at that weight, then move on. You could also try "super sets", "century sets", or "forced reps" to help you through a plateau.

    2) Recovery time is.....tough to pin down. It is different for each person. That's the first workout I have heard of that calls out 75 seconds though. Average is either 1 min or 1 1/2 min. That's right in the middle...not bad. Just different. Don't fret TOO much about recovery time unless you are on a VERY intense program...and if you are lifting three times a week, it's probably not THAT intense (I'm talking getting ready for a competition type) Resting for more then two minutes normally isn't good. I would try 1 1/2 minutes and see how that feels. If you feel you have to go longer, then try it, but again..not too long.

    3) don't know

    4) don't know

    5) Training at night can be a GREAT thing!!! It shocks your bodies metabolism back into overdrive right before it's EXPECTING to get to shut down. Good thing!! HOWEVER, you do have to be smart with your supplements and after workout meal. What kind of protein are you taking? You said you are only taking in 36 grams ALL DAY (by the way, your average persons diet has over 100 grams of protein in it from food alone, and your food is a large factor in how much you take in)? Are you in Europe? Are measurements different over there? I have NEVER seen a protein supplement in the States that is LESS then 20grams per scope.

    Most likely you're taking Whey, correct? How much are you taking? After a workout between 40-60 Grams is the norm, because Whey is a fast digesting protein which is excellent within 30 min to an hour of your workout....but...it's not great to be taking in right before you go to bed. Have you tried a mix of casein protein? Casein is slow digesting and is great for a night time snack because it is slow digesting and prevents your body from going into a catabolic state (fueling itself with your own muscle tissue) during the night. Also, if it is Whey that is bothering you, have you tried mixing in some Soy protein? It is also fast digesting, but from plants (whey is from milk, so is casein.)

    Recent studies are showing that slow digesting carbs right before bed are a good for pretty much the same reason. Provides food for your body throughout the night. HOWEVER, right after a workout is an optimal time to take in some FAST digesting carbs in order to bump your insulin levels back up. Think a mix here...maybe a couple slices of white bread for the fast? then something you enjoy for the slow? (potato, brown rice...whatever). Not absolutely sure about it though. There is a magic mix here, you are just gonna have to play with it some.

    If you agree with me at all, or understand what I am saying (in other words, if you don't think I'm full of crap) Please provide a bit more info on your workout and supplement routine and maybe I could provide a bit more insight.

    Matt
     
  3. Mr Punch

    Mr Punch Homicidal puppet

    Good point. I'll post it.

    Cool, thanks, I'll check them out.

    It's a fat-loss programme, so the 75 secs is supposed to be fairly tough, but since it's the first step of the fat-loss programme it isn't too tough. That's 75 secs for a rest between each set of a superset. It's six sessions with 15 reps at 75 secs, then it drops to six with 12 reps at 60, then six with 10 (or 8, I forget offhand) reps at 45. I assume two mins or less between each finished set of supersets.

    BTW, I don't really need a fat-loss programme, but it's part of a false-beginners programme designed by Alwyn Cosgrove and Lou Schuler from 'New Rules for Lifting': it's a good looking programme which looks suited to me and takes a year. I think the fat-loss sessions are more designed to break you into the heavier hypertrophy and strength stuff later.

    Lol, nooo nooo nooo! 36 g per recovery 'meal' every two hours! I assume from other reading that standard muscle maintenance for a sedentary bod is 1 g of protein for 1 kg of bodyfat. According to John Berardi (if you don't know him, check his recovery diet article on his website) and the Cosgrove/Schuler book I'm needing a hefty whack of protein (plus carbs to up the insulin required to get it to my muscles) every two hours after a workout at least three times (which already causes problems in night-time training right?!) to prevent the cortisol from eating my muscles! The whack size is ... yep, you got it the numbers I quoted above. I'm 82 kg and on average on a training day I eat about 300 g of protein from a variety of sources: beans in cooking/salads, tofu, natto; lots of fresh, dried and canned fish, mostly oily fish grilled, or raw fish like sashimi; eggs, raw/fried/sometimes boiled; and bog-standard Weider whey protein (which is 15 g of protein per scoop, plus 6 g from the milk I mix it with, so if I'm just using that for recovery I'll have two scoops coming in at exactly 36 g). On a none-training day it's still over 200 I would think.

    Incidentally, I live in Japan. The Weider protein is standard US fare I think, from Costco over here.

    Yep, the Weider stuff... don't really like it but hampered by choice and expense.

    Thought the casein from the milk would help to slow down the whey protein digestion... maybe that's causing the problem...

    Am I right in thinking that slow digesting carbs are ones with a lower GI? I've heard the thing about fast digesting ones just after a workout before, so I go for white toast, or fruit quite often (pectin is also said to be good). Potato is quite high GI so maybe not so good before bed though, right?

    Thanks a lot so far - given me plenty to chew on,

    Mat.
     
  4. Mr Punch

    Mr Punch Homicidal puppet

    Cycle to the gym quickly.

    Warm-up:
    10-20 walking twisting lunges
    10-20 T-push-ups
    10-20 side lunges
    15-20 ball crunches
    3-10 inchworms
    10-20 Russian twists on the ball
    20 kg x 5 seated good morning + box squats + overhead presses with no rest.

    (All weights in kg)

    BB Squat
    55 x 15
    60 x 15
    65 x 10 (got dizzy!)
    drop set 60 x 5
    SS (75 secs rest) with DB push press
    14 (each hand) x 15
    16 x 15
    18 x 12 (fail) drop set 16 x 5

    Two mins or less rest.

    Cable seated row
    42.5 x 15
    47.5 x 15
    52.5 x 15 (wasn't sure I was getting full ROM so...)
    blasted through 47.5 x 10 drop set.
    SS (75 secs) with Weighted supine hip extension
    16 x 15
    18 x 15
    20 x 15

    Two mins or less rest.

    Walking rotational lunge with DBs
    16 x 30
    18 x 30
    20 x 30
    SS (75 secs) with Bent-knee weighted curl-ups
    14 x 15
    16 x 15
    18 x 15

    Couple of stretches, lunges, 20 kg BB presses for a warm-down.

    Cycle home quickly.

    That's one session. I train three times a week with at least one day between each session.

    The alternate session is:

    BB deads SS with Incline DB benches

    Bulgarian split squats SS with Mixed grip lat pull-downs

    Russian ball rolls SS with BB Romanian deads

    The deads are a little heavier than the squats, the benches heavier than the overhead presses, the pull-downs about the same as the cable-rows, and the Bulgarian ss about the same as the rotational lunges... so nothing extremely heavy yet - not near my 1RM but enough to mess me up after 3 x 15.

    Then there's the MA stuff and semi-isometric stance work, which I'll post at some point if there's interest and time!
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2008
  5. fifthchamber

    fifthchamber Valued Member

    Mat..

    I can't speak to the rest, but as far as protein goes I found the Weider selection here to be among the worst..The "Muscle fit" range is naff all good as it's half and half Whey and Casein, and not enough of either really..

    I'd suggest the DNS(?) proteins that they sell in places like Yamada Denki, or supermarkets....If you need a far better selection then I'd suggest popping into my gym (Gold's Gym) in a location close to you and choosing one of theirs, as they get a wider range, and would be able to find something far better than Weider..

    I use the Weider Muscle Fit before bed, just for the Casein, but there really isn't so much there since it's half Whey..

    Gold's is about fair on the prices (For Japan anyway) and has a whey better selection than anywhere else....They have locations in Nakano, Higashi Nakano, Fuchu, and a few other places, all with stores attached selling the proteins...

    Good luck..
     
  6. Custom Volusia

    Custom Volusia Valued Member

    Ok........can't respond to too much of that right now....chilling with my wife. No problem though, I really enjoy physical fitness! But thank goodness I miss read the Protein thing!!!! Good that you seem to be getting a lot from food.

    I'm gonna look up the program you are talking about online. More later. Maybe someone else will chime in with some knowledge.

    Matt
     

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