Most people here are familiar with the importance of awareness, especially in pre-fight scenarios where you do or do not know whether it is going to kick off and I think everyone here knows how important good social skills can be to avoiding a fight. With that in mind I'd like to share an experience I had back in June and get peoples thoughts on it. A group of friends, myself included, used to play basketball as a way of staying in touch and taking advantage of the rare month or two of Aberdonian sunshine. The basketball court nearest to us, and the only one we knew of was round the back of a friends flat in a pretty rough part of town. I remember one day there were about 8 of us all together (4 guys, 4 girls) and two guys approached us. One of them had his shirt off and was very drunk, the other was only tipsy. They had with them a BIG dog and the drunk guy wanted to try shooting the ball. These guys, to all intents and purposes looked like Neds and the fact that they were drunk, wandering around outside, at 2 in the afternoon didn't help their image. The crowd I was with consisted largely of students and seeing as I was the main one talking with them, I thought the best solution was to humor them as the guy with his shirt still on seemed more interested in leaving than talking to us and I guessed he'd soon pull his dog and his friend away to go somewhere else. Thankfully all went well. I could tell a couple of people were nervous at having these shady characters roam around our group while drunk and barely controlling this massive Rottie but eventually they both toddled off and weren't seen again. I feel as though in this case, I "let my guard down" even though I was suspicious because. I felt to turn them away would cause friction and may instill hostility where there was none. It could be that refusing to trust him with our ball might of been taken as a red flag. I don't know if this is a particularly British or European thing but do any of the more experienced SD people feel like sometimes letting ones guard down is the best way to diffuse a potentially sketchy situation?
You didn't let your guard down, you chose to a pre-emptive approach to de-escalation. Your guard was in fact fully up.
I love this story. In terms of self-defence, it may not be the best idea; in terms of responding well to an awkward situation that didn't actually need any self-defence, it was brilliant! I think opening up and showing some friendliness and vulnerability in the midst of a potential conflict or a sketch situation, is the best first way to try and keep anything from happening. While we don't want to pretend that violence isn't real and that bad people don't exist, I think sometimes people can get so caught up in thinking about self-defence that we're too busy keeping risky people away and miss opportunities to build a relationship, or at least to make someone's day better. When I talk about peacemaking and conflict transformation with people, I usually emphasise we're not restricted to only Fight or Flight in risky situations; as most day-to-day altercations usually stem from things like perceived insults, misdirected anger, or the need to protect ego, a lot of conflict can be avoided or healed by simply choosing to embrace the other person and show some humility and empathy. And at the end of the day, whether the drunk guy chooses to play ball or steal the ball, a basketball isn't worth a fight. This is just a long way of saying, I think your response was great.
I have a recent one, but where both parties were more than a little drunk. I was coming back from a party in London, been drinking most of the day, and bumped into someone I knew - friend of friends - who happened to live in the next flats, and he invited me around. Now I'm not proud of what happened next and while I liked the guy it was not enough to get 'that' involved but he forced it and I didn't do enough to stop it, partly because of the ill feeling that might be around friends, and living in close proximity to this guy and not knowing how strong he was, as he is quite a bit younger though a lot more a fat slob than he was years ago. Pooh for the beer goggle effect. Anyway, I knew the day after, that it had been a big big mistake, he was sending all these flirty quite frankly ridiculous texts and I said I'm not interested, that he doesn't know me, that if he actually took the time to be friends first he might have had more value - though I think in truth he'd never have got beyond the friend zone, since he has none of the fitness values I have and is a bit of stoner dropout, graffiti over some of his walls, the place was a mess - and wrote some of this. This went on for some weeks. I tried to avoid any contact, and communication, stopped returning texts. Then he started coming around late ringing my doorbell, 1.40am Friday, some of us work. I told he to go away, only more bluntly, didn't open the door. Thinking this was the very thing I wanted to avoid when I let things go bad. Then again yesterday 11.30pm I just ignored it, then sent a blunt message to stay away. He continue to act the victim, which kind of proved how pathetic he is, while nervous to even answer the door I stormed over ready for a full on physical confrontation. I was so wired on adrenaline if he had actually opened the door I don't know whether I would have hit him since words were having no effect. He passed my bottle opener out the window, borrowed in a faux neighbourly moment a couple of weeks ago, though entirely used as a means to get an invite (while sober) which at the time I let him but during that time was more passive and could let him in then immediately out, but I'd already explained I could not trust him outside the company of others, or drunk, or myself to make better value judgements while drunk, plainly. But I don't know who I was more angry at, him or myself. Some fairly unpleasant things were said/yelled, all with a neighbour who witnessed the lot (in his favour, I had to raise the bar and try to scare him and myself a bit, or at least disabuse him of any illusion he might have that something might come out of this, It won't. Are some guys ignorant of 'beer goggles'?) Told him if he continues to harrass me I will just contact the Police*, but I don't know what they could do. He has a record, I don't, that might work in my favour if it comes to he said she said. All of my friends are useless, either too far away or too much wimps to take sides or get involved. I've not been in such an awkward situation since I shared a flat with a girl in 2000 (before I moved here) and she was having a violent argument with her boyfriend at knifepoint. * if anyone knows the legal implications in the UK!!! I'd be interested, or whether I need to speak to the HA since I've been living here for 11 years and not been in a situation as bad as this.
It's difficult for the Police to act in a 'quiet' situation. To do anything they need evidence. If you still have the text record then that could be used as evidence of harassment, but unless you can 'prove' a pattern of unsolicited intimidating behaviour there's not much they can do.
I think you did the right thing Giacomo. Drunk people don't respond to being told "no" particularly well, and you have to court them into the idea through prolonged reasoning I find. If you hand something fairly benign to someone potentially dangerous, you've just occupied their hands and their mind with a task, but always be alert to the possibility that their request may be orchestrated to close distance and be at full alert during the handoff. Aggressive dogs are less dangerous than aggressive people, but they do learn and adapt their strategies quickly, just like humans, so in a group attack situation, you hafta immediately get over any reservations about causing lasting damage to an animal you might otherwise love. Dogs instinctively attack from your blindside and are expert ambushers, so don't assume an injured dog is down for the count.
Actually I do have them on my Vodafone number (I just switched today to Orange, as I really can't deal with confrontation too well, even to the point borderline AvPD) they're still on my phone, since the exchange is one long conversation), but that wouldn't include the late night doorbell ringing. I need to ask the HA what or how I can deal if this continues. There was a situation affecting my Turkish neighbour a few years ago, getting abuse from a racist neighbour on the ground floor who had complained about the noise. I think he kept a log but also might have made noise/nuisance calls to someone. It led to that guy being evicted, but both no longer live here. I tried not to get involved:vanish: I also need some blackout curtains so it can't be so clear when I'm in at night
In my experience I've always found drunk people quite easy to be talked out of something. For example, a couple of months ago I happened to be disturbed by a drunk guy at the bus stop - he was yelling that he wanted to rape me and trying to push me against the wall - and I couldn't simply run away because I couldn't miss the last bus. Somehow I started talking to him asking why he wanted to do that, making him think of what he'd do if that happened to his mother, things like that. Eventually he started to cry - it also turned out that his father was dying or something similar - sitting in a corner while I tried to make him even more depressed. When I found myself in similar situations it always worked to do that. I don't know if it was just luck or this is a generally working method, but so far I can't complain. :dunno:
I think you handled it excellent. You recognized a potential escalation scenario, and preempted it by humoring them and 'accepting' them while at the same time being alert. And the results were the best possible outcome. I think there is nothing you could have done better. You didn't let your guard down because you remained aware and on alert. In fact, had you rejected them, then their drunkenness / background could have made them very problematic for you and your friends. Well done I say!
You did just the right thing Giacomo. It doesn't sound like they were being aggressive towards you, so you were right to stay polite and to humour them. Okay, they weren't the sort of company you really wanted, but you correctly judged that by humouring them, they would not turn aggressive and would actually get bored and wander off pretty quickly. Your guard WAS up by the sound of things, waiting to see if the situation did in fact deteriorate. But you did nothing to make that happen, whereas rebuffing them at the start probably would have led to an unpleasant situation.
First of all it's interesting that everyone seems to feel that I did the right thing by "playing along" but I'm quite interested in the possible strategic downside to this approach. Johb R. Gambit raises an interesting point. Some people do use these harmless requests as a way of getting closer to their victims. While I was still aware of what could have gone on, letting them play with the basketball meant that I no longer had an effective fence. In order to "act natural" I still had to turn my back on them from time to time, and allow them to get closer to people than I would of initially liked. I know of muggings where the mugger asks for the time, or directions, in order to get close... is there any real solution that could be provided here? Seems like there is a real vulnerability in determining the motives of a potential assailant.
Put it like this: you couldn't run (because of your friends). You couldn't outright reject them either without raising the stakes and risking them getting aggressive. There were 2 so while one kept you occupied, the other could go after your friends. So short of preemptively attacking them, I don't see how you could do better then to play them along. Had you been alone, I agree that there would have been other options. But with others around whom you could not control and who could not deal with possible escalation, what you did was best. Imho.
Ta. It's been a drama-free week, though I have taken some longer alternative routes to/from my flat in order not to be seen. Maybe I've read one too many Barry Eisler (John Rain) novels
It's not like anyone needs to ask for the time to get close. It's not like you put up a guard and start circling away every time someone walks past you on the sidewalk. They do it to get close without arousing suspicion or to get your attention while a teammate ambushes you. Watching your surroundings, watching the guy's hands and watching your distance are the things you need to be doing. In most societies, you can't feasibly deny any and all entry into your "bubble" but you can assess the trespassers first and monitor until they're out. Of course in this situation I would recommend making him reach for the ball and quietly cutting an angle if he tries to stand too close. If you're already suspicious then, obviously, guard that bubble. Why act natural? Let them know you're paying attention to them. Don't turn your back on a potential threat. Quick peeks for "flankers" sure, but don't give openings out of politeness. Seasoned criminals assess their targets' awareness, posture and attitude during their selection phase. If they don't think they can get the drop on you, they're likely to look for another target. You seem to be a looking for a foolproof method for preventing or denying an assault (of course that's the first and biggest tool in real life self protection, so that's good) but ultimately, even if you do everything right, you may still have to throw down. Live training and the ability to (confidently) perceive an assault beginning may be the only tools available to you one day. As an aside, the wide availability of lethal weapons (knives, guns, large/poorly managed dogs, etc.) would make me strongly consider some form of weapon. Living in the UK obviously hamstrings many of us in that respect.
Surely there some point where you need to make a trade off between maintaining pre-emptive barriers and diplomacy? I'm not really looking for a fool-proof method. I'm relatively certain that pre-fight decision making is much more of an art than it is a science.
Never let a group of strange males surround you. Practice calmly circling someone while appearing natural, relaxed, and non-defensive but avoid allowing a group of strange males to ever stand on both sides of you. Whichever one is addressing you, circle away from his compatriots and use his body as a shield. I don't always do it, and I'm trying to switch back off these days, but I tend to instinctively jockey for optimal strategic location in those sort of social situations without always realizing I'm doing it. Remember that people don't approach and try to victimize someone unless they believe they have a clear advantage in winning, meaning superior numbers (sometimes hidden) or weapons. So train for this. When you're approached by a group of dangerous looking males, if you need to, start mentally preparing your mind for the possibility of abrupt violence. This can be tricky because it's important you remain calm and detached while doing this so your actions don't unintentionally appear defensive and escalate the situation needlessly. You also need to have a strong trained startle reflex. For me, I personally never stop performing counter-surveillance when I step outside my home unless I'm exhausted, very distracted, or sick. I tend to watch everyones' hands and eyes near me. I try to pay careful attention to their gait and mannerisms and analyze their body language. My head is always on a swivel, particularly if there are strange males present. I try to always secure seats with my back to the wall where I can watch the other patrons in public. I trained myself to memorize people, so I take careful inventory of anyone lounging around without an obvious agenda, especially if they are watching me or anyone I'm with, making a mental note of their clothes, distinct features, vehicle type, license plate, etc.. I ratchet up my awareness when I'm in a dangerous situation, like entering and egressing a vehicle, a building, my home, a convenience store at night, near a bar, at an ATM, etc. I try to never let my vehicle be entirely boxed in in traffic if I can avoid it so I'm less vulnerable to vehicular blockades and to give myself the necessary distance to drive through such barriers. I check behind me when I'm walking regularly and I take inventory of other vehicles in my rear view mirror as a matter of protocol, and if anyone appears to follow me for too long I react evasively (after memorizing their details). And if I'm approached and ambush cues start to happen in the distance (vehicle stops and turns around, strange group of males stand up and approach me, etc.), I start immediately looking in a quick 360 radius for additional ambush clues. If I'm approached and feel sufficiently threatened, I tend to put a left hand fence out and cover my right hip for weapon draw and retention. If someone still tries to approach me even closer while I'm giving them the back off body language, I slowly back away while giving calm, clear responses asking them what they want and telling them they're close enough already. (This very rarely happens, but when it does people tend to assume I'm a cop.) I'm not suggesting you also engage in all the behaviors I wrote about for my habits, but it is a form of target hardening that will make you less likely to be chosen as a victim. I had to learn to do that for work and to keep people I cared about safe, so now not doing it is a very hard habit for me to break.
