Lets get back to the bible...

The other thread went completely in the other direction. I'd like everything in this thread to concern the bible if possible...

Random meanness, absurdities, contradictions:

Gen.1:25-27 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.

Gen.2:18-19 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

So... man came first? or... what?

Deuteronomy 20: 17-18 (which I personally hate): “We shall annihilate them all, just as the Lord our God has commanded, so that they may not teach us to do all the abhorrent things that they do for their Gods, thus making us sin against our Gods.”

Yeah, thats a nice teaching.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.--Jer.19:3

If a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and ... if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.--Ex.21:20-21

"And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls." But this contradicts Acts 7:14 which says there were 75.

Gen 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 22 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah. This was because, so say the Christian Right, some homosexuals lived there. LOL

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day

Genisis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Giants? wtf?

Who were "the sons of God" who had sex with "the daughters of men"? Apparently nobody nice cuz god decided to kill all of them in the next few verses....

Lev 1:5 And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Lev 1:6 And he shall flay the burnt offering, and cut it into his pieces.

Lev 3:5 And Aaron's sons shall burn it on the altar upon the burnt sacrifice, which is upon the wood that is on the fire: it is an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.

5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Hebrews Chapter 10 10:4
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Lev 5:2 Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.

Lev 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Yes... damn those insects with 4 legs...........

Lev20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Lev20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

Lev25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

Gods instructions for buying slaves.

So Joshua smote all the country ... he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.--Joshua 10:40

Lev.19:11
"Neither lie one to another

2 Kg.8:10
"And Elisha said unto him, go, say unto him, Thou mayest certainly recover: howbeit the Lord hath showed me that he shall surely die."

Is lying ok or not?

ev.21:8
"All liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."

Jn.3:13
"No man hath ascended up to heaven."

2 Kg.2:11
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

n.8:14
"Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true."

Jn.5:31
"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

as.1:13
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

Mt.6:13
"And lead us not into temptation."


these are just a few.... FEW. yes, there a lot of great things in the bible, about love and life, and happiness. But look at what its teaching.... i mean.. cmon man, seriously.

you cant pick and chose what you believe in the bible. You either believe it, or u dont. If its all the word of god, then how can it be wrong? ITS THE WORD OF GOD. Hm... You cant say , well hes right about homos, they suck, but hes not right about beating your wife... thats just wrong.

What are your thoughts of the bible? Do you think it should be taken literally? Do you think its just kinda there to help us? Do you think its a bunch of crap? Why so many contradictions? Even if more than one person wrote it, i would think knowing who came first man or beast, would be an important point god would make to these "inspired" people...

 

I pick and choose. What you gonna do about it?

PL

 

Why do you pick and choose?

 

Let me guess, you got these from a website and didn't do any reading of your own. And you didn't bother to find out what anything meant in the context of Jewish law, either, did you?

Let's start with
Jn.5:31
"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."
n.8:14
"Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true."

I purposely put those in the correct order, since it makes more sense that way.

Now, if you had even read half as much of the bible as it would have taken to get those quotes, you would know that in Deuteronomy, it says that to convict a man, more than witness is needed. These statements are clearly a reference to it.

In the first passage, Jesus is talking about how he is not the only witness to the testemony he has just given. In other words, he's saying "if you don't believe me, there are other witnesses who can confirm what I've said."

case in point, just below that passage, he says
"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me."

Now, as for the second passage, lets look at that one in context, too.

"The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."

Another reference to the law, as outlined in Deuteronomy.

"Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going."

He is saying that even if he is the only witness, the testimony he is giving is true. AND he gives a reason why. He admits that legally, there aren't enough witnesses to confirm his testimony, but it's true anyway, and then explains himself further.

If you quote more than one line at a time, these things start to make sense.

As for the animal sacrifices, they were a part of Jewish tradition, to attone for sins. However, the passage in Hebrews makes it clear that it is not the sacrifices, but **GOD** that cleanses them of their sins. The sacrafices are a form of penance, and Hebrews makes sure you understand that it's God that's doing the actual work.

As for Genesis, do you really think the people who wrote it didn't notice that they had included two different stories of creation? Kind of funny that they were labelled separately, as different stories, in separate chapters, too, if they thought they were the same. Do you really think no one else has noticed this either?

The stories of creation are meant to show who created the universe, what man's role in it is, what the role of other animals is, describe the nature of man, and explain a little bit about God. Ancient people had a much different way of viewing these stories than you would, as do many tribal peoples with their own stories today, which is why they were perfectly happy accepting two different versions of the creation story in the bible. Once again, I emphasize that there is no way this could have slipped by them, as they are labeled "first story of creation" and "second story of creation", both of which cover the same events, although they're slightly different.

"Sodom and Gomorrah" - the reason the bible says God destroyed it wasn't just because "some homosexuals lived there. LOL". Apparently, there weren't any righteous men anywhere in the cities. And there was the temple of prostitutes. There was a lot of bad stuff going on there.

I'm too tired to go over what else might be in there right now.

I read a bunch of things like this from a Muslim site once, trying to prove Christianity false. Usually, the accusations were easily proved false, like when it claimed that the passage from the OT "The weakness of God is stronger than the strength of men and the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of man" was saying that God is foolish and weak. Clearly, anyone with half a brain knows that's not what it's saying.

Before you start making wierd accusations, do the reading, find the context, and don't just rely on what somebody who spends far too much time trying to prove Christianity wrong says these passages are supposed to mean.

 

I think the Moderators should start a new Forum called "Bashing Christianity" as this seems to be the most common type of thread in this forum at the moment.

Firstly, you can't read the Bible like it's a novel. You can't also take bits out of their overall context, specially so many, and expect someone here to make a rebuttal, as it would take about 5 hours. Be sensible.

You also come across as someone who is aggresive and angry, and has a bone to pick. It is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Bible, so from the start, you have a LOT to learn from the book that you are trying to belittle.

Everyone is entitled to theit own opinions, but try to make them educated, and with no bad intent.

Cheers
Wali

 

If siphus has got that much time to write all that then the sad man needs a life!!

I am catholic and still never looked into it that much, why do you want to? are you an abused alter boy?!?!?

 

Actually I'm very tempted to move ALL these religion threads to the Off Topic forum.

This is the Philosophy forum on a martial arts site.

If the thread has no relation to philosophy as it relates to the study of martial arts then it should by rights be in Off Topic.

 

In fact - I did.

 

Totally agree.

 

In fact - I've just created a new forum under Off Topic for the discussion of specific religions ans their beliefs.

Enjoy

 

The problem is that moving Buddhism there is a mistake because Buddhism is not a religion and because there is a heavy connection between martial arts and Buddhism. As you know the Indian monk Arya Bodhidharma (Pu Di Da Mo in Chinese) is the patron saint of Shaolin Gong Fu in China and all martial arts.

Same can be said about Daoism and its connection to IMA.

I hope you'll keep Buddhist (and Daoist) topics in the philosophy section.


Thanks for your understanding.

 

Budhism is a religion, with like priests and temples and incantations and stuff.
"Heavy connection" between martial arts and budhism? News to me.

 

Yes - Buddhism IS a religion. Although no "diety" is "worshipped" Buddhism contains an explantion of the origin of existence, a morality, and a specific set of rituals and behaviors. Buddhism also presents a transformational goal, a desire to improve one's situation, and a distinct moral code. It is a religion.

If threads have a specific relevance to martial arts or they are not discussing religion (including Buddhism) specifically then yes - they are welcome in the Philosophy section. Otherwise not.

 

It seems like a lot of people don't like to use the word religion when describing their religions, and I can never understand why.

 

But he *doesn't* have that much time. I know my post was ridiculously long, but I pointed out that he couldn't have possibly read those quotes in context, because in context, i.e. if you read about five more words in those sentences, they usually make sense. Also, he missed some pretty obvious passages that some of the others referr to, and how some are interconnected.

I have a pretty good idea of *where* he got those, actually, since it's not hard to find sites on the net with those "contradictions" listed on them.

 

ive read through the bible, but yes, i did find a site wth some of those listed, as it would be the quickest way to explain my thought, without having to spend too much time, cuz indeed, i dont live a sad life...

My post wasnt about saying the bible is right and wrong, and yes, some was out of context. But the point is, there ARE a lot of contradictions, small or not, and things that are really messed up in teh bible, but people pick and choose what to believe and what not, and for people to take these writings literally, i think they are missing the true purpose of the bible...

 

Sigh. Damo's involvement in the formation of Shaolin or Chinese martial arts is at best hyperbole and more than likely myth. Martial arts in various forms predate the spread of buddism in China from any source. Additionally, if Damo did in fact visit Shaolin then at best he brought Yogic breathing.

Here's a good overview on the entire Damo thing:
http://www.hungkuen.net/history-damo.htm

While Buddism does have a connection to Shaolin Kung Fu, it's no where near as entangled as popular fiction would lead you to believe. Daoists and Muslims have a far greater claim to such a connection.

- Matt

 

Then, read my first message. I didn't have the time to look through all of them, but I believe I explained how several are not contradictions. You can't prove there are a lot of contradictions in the bible by listing a bunch of things that only seem to be contradictions out of context.

 

You really need to get a girlfriend!!

 

Um, actually i do have a girlfriend, for about 2 years now... What would that have to do with anything? Just because shes perfect and you want her doesnt make my post any less intelligent...