If you want my serious opinion then I will say 'yes'. I have known some people who could do this though I have not directly seen them doing it, including one of my ancestor about whom it is said that he had once levitated and then disappeared (perhaps teleported?) into the air while sitting over a wall in deep thought. He was a dervish. I always took it as some old legend about the good ol' people with a good laugh. But this was later confirmed also by people from outside our family. However, I didn't believe until I passed my matriculation and got some time to try the techniques I found on the internet to check for myself if they work or not. Some worked, many didn't but those some that worked had me enough of the feeling that they are for real. I once discussed this in our academy and also gave a demonstration of the common psi wheel and one friend came to acknowledge that they are real, further saying that his grandfather too practiced telepathy. He said that his grandfather could pass a needle through the solid bricks/concrete wall (I had seen the shaolin monks passing the needle through glass in a video, but seriously concrete wall?). I asked him, "where is he now?", wishing to be his student but he said, "dead (unfortunately)". This needle thing I also heard from other sources. But these are only those things which are 'heard from someone' claims. So far I have not seen any master doing any of these great feats right before my eyes except what I have practiced: moving psiwheel, moving book pages, transferring energy, healing pain and those on which I tried the latter two gave the guarantee that it's working, they can feel it. I have left their practice since I saw some religious conflicts with them and also because I am too lazy to continue doing something again and again (it takes a lot of hardwork and time, continuously repeating and trying to gain that 1/100th chance and gathering it) and also because, 'who is going to wait for you to form a chi ball or something in an actual conflict?'. What I have found is that it depends a lot on your belief. If you believe that it can be done, the chances of success increase exponentially and if you don't believe, it won't work for you no matter how much you are just try unless you are just doubtful but believe it's possible or unless karma happens for you. Even after 1 year practice, I can not believe if what I did was real after I have left practice for more than 2.5 years. To be exact, I believe that it's possible (and my general belief is that everything's possible, it just needs correct method) but I have many doubts. I think about starting it again but can not prepare the mind to be regular on practice (and I am not as much confident to succeed) because it gets boring when you fail for a long time; certainly not interesting. This goes a little off-topic; I would suggest opening a new thread for it. MOD Note. Paragraphs added to make reading easier.
Psi wheels can be easily explained by thermal currents. Try placing mugs of hot water around one and see how fast it spins. EDIT: like so: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdBE3t2S95I"]Mugs spinning a psi wheel - YouTube[/ame]
I have seen all this; I have looked at both sides of the picture, from a skeptic's view too and from a believer's view too but my final conclusion is just as I posted earlier: I believe that it's possible but I have doubts, which means that I think that for all these things can be given better scientific explanations. Ok, I know that it occurs because of thermal currents but from where come the hot currents in the days of February, when my hands always remain cold almost all year and how does it move in the specific direction we will it to go. I do not believe that it happens all magically, rather I believe that our mind play tricks on us by providing the required warmth to our hands which then moves the psi wheel. Do you know what is reality? It's just something which is in our mind; our mind can create great illusions and thus make us believe that it's happening for real and what my belief is that if many people gather to focus on the same thing, it can become reality and if one person can gather that much belief then he can alone turn something into reality. Many people do not believe in God because they expect God to be something very magical or miraculous and they say it happens because of science, but who in the first place created science and who made us think a certain way because we know atleast we are not the ones who control ourselves and put those thoughts in ourselves and if we think that it's all just coincidence, then the whole life loses its meaning; if you think deep about this, you will understand. Once again, it's the same concept of Kyojitsu ('false-true'/'insubstantial-substantial'). These are complex philosophical things and goes beyond the scope of what we today consider martial arts and atleast what this thread is for. Once again, I will request that please do not start a debate on this matter. I respect everyone's belief and that he/she must search for the truth him/her-self and I expect that the other people must respect my belief too. Just an end quote, "When your heart is preoccupied, your sword/word doesn't remain true; preoccupied by a single leaf, you will lose the sight of the tree; preoccupied by a single tree, you will miss the entire forest. See everything in its entirety, limitless." -'Musashi' by Vladimir Bartol
As a hypnotist I have learned that our mind can create anything and that we make no distinction between reality and fantasy in our mind. So eventhough we can experience something like psi wheels or chi balls that doesnt mean it is real. The test for me would be if you can let somebody, who is a sceptic, experience it. The amazing randy will pay a million dollar if you can prove any such phenomonan. So far nobody has been able to collect on that money.
It seems a bit unfair for you to write reams about the subject and then ask that no-one questions you, isn't it? I can buy the whole solipsism bit (sorry, but it's not really all that complex, and have you read Hans Vaihinger's The Philosophy of 'As if'? You'll find that the inevitable logical conclusion of solipsistic thinking is the conclusion that god is also a construct of your imagination), there is one thing I'd like to add: A life without God is not a life without meaning. I think you need to think a little harder on what we can say about "meaning". It's not that complicated.
Nah..most people don't believe in gods (people that believe in a god always just write "god" like their one is the only option...there are loads of gods) because the evidence for them is not very compelling. I don't think miracles or magic exist either.
No, many people do not believe in God because theres no evidence. Me included. Science is not a thing you create, in essence its not a thing, its a methodology, a way of building a model of the world based on evidence. So who controls us then. If you say its a God then we are not responsible for our actions and that people like Hitler cannot be criticised for what they did. Heres the thing, non believers in God (Atheists) tend to accept responsibility for their actions, those that believe in a God can always blame the devil or claim they are doomed to sin anyway, because we are all sinners. I know which one I would rather be. Who said its all coincidence. Our brain is designed to look for patterns, hense why cold reading and mediumship tricks people into believing they can speak to the dead. But this is a trick magicians understand. As an ex Magician myself (Member of the International Brotherhood of Magicians and vetted by three members of the magic circle to join the organisation) I can tell you that its very easy to trick people. As for the tricks that mediums do, read Houdini or Corinda. I have, and so far theres no evidence of psychic powers. No its not because Kyojitsu does not rely on psychic abilities. Actually they don't. Read chapter 11 of Essence of Ninjutsu by Dr Hatsumi. This chapter goes into how many of these tricks that fool people are done,
But where MissingNin has a point is that, whether gods, miracles and magic exist or not, they do have real effects in the world through people's belief in them. For instance, Marconi and Edison both formed part of their interest in radio communication in order to talk to the dead. Without that belief, would communication technology have improved so quickly? My favourite spanner in the works is the idea that we are likely to be in a simulated universe, rather than a "real" one. In which case, all bets are off when it comes to the laws of physics, or even whether we are experiencing the same simulation as each other. Here's the academic version: http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html But again, that Oxford philosopher was influenced (whether consciously, or through the aetheric woo-woo), by the magician (not the stage kind, the sorcerer kind) Lionel Snell, aka Ramsey Dukes, who came up with Johnstone’s Paradox: "VIRTUAL REALITY Instead I say a little more now about the ancient and widespread Magical theory that matter is an illusion or, to put it in more modern terms, that our reality is ‘virtual’. As explained earlier, Magical beliefs are chosen to support a desired end result. If you want advice and you have a tarot pack, you adopt some form of belief that a tarot pack contains or else is a doorway to greater wisdom, and then you draw the cards. So it is desirable to select beliefs which offer greater scope for Magical results. The belief that our world is but a shadow play of mighty cosmic forces, which can be wooed and manipulated by human wisdom — that is a pretty good Magical belief. The belief that the world was made by one God who forbids the use of Magic is a less useful one. One of the worst possible Magical beliefs is that our world is made of solid matter shaped only by chance, within which human consciousness and will arise as mere epiphenomena. Magic-wise it’s utter useless crap, and yet it is a belief heavily endorsed by our Scientific culture. So what is needed for modern Magic is a belief which will subvert Scientific materialism and restore the unreality of matter. The candidate that Lemuel Johnstone put forward was the notion that we are living in a cybernetic virtual reality which has the laws of physics programmed (or learnt or evolved) into it. The strength of this magical belief is that it does not attempt to oppose the materialistic model so much as to transcend it. This was originally explained in the following terms. 1)If reality is ultimately materialistic and rational, then it could be described in a finite set of instructions and modelled as information. 2)If it could be modelled in this way, then it will be — at the very least because, given limitless time, all possible permutations of a finite universe should occur. 3)For every one original reality there will be many such sub-models, and they too will generate many sub-sub-models. 4)The nature of complex systems means that it is almost impossible for any reality to reproduce itself exactly, indeed there is greater likelihood that the submodels will be mutations of the original, subject to different structures and laws. 5)Because the models severely outnumber the original reality, or realities, it is therefore more likely that we are living in a universe modelled as infor- mation, and it is most likely that it is not identical to the original reality. 6)Thus Johnstone’s Paradox: if reality is ultimately materialistic and rational, then it is highly unlikely we are living in a materialistic, rational universe." SSOTBME, Ramsey Dukes, 1974 Just something to think about
I would have hoped that if an all-powerful creator had a plan for my life, it would involve something more exciting than staring at a bit of cardboard on a pin for years on end, trying to make it spin around.
Hatsumi-sensei abuses people's superstitious beliefs all the time I think that that's the essential point
Threads and fabric...using the most of the causm to your own appointment...is an Anrich Anpin..or otherwise someone who can pin something.. A Pin represents a minimal point..or conjecture..of which we can do acupuncture or otherwise needling the graveyards...that people have an idea..which is Air..as a current it is smoke and clouds...with which we learn and do better than others in this type of quality that is ninjutsu! \ From the more well rounded and learned theories today or theorists themselves..are made to have heaven in an instant...and a nano second is all it takes to be able to kill someone..but most people want to do self defense...with out harm..and that is what Aikido is about...but Ninjutsu..is about the deadly spots themselves...a pin can litterally kill you via dim mak...and thats how wing chun and shaolin kung fu mix well with ninjutsu! This is an honest and able post..about Adam..who is a man of today..who wills to win..with power at his side..and object at his left..thus is the man made beautiful with the willing case of the day...and thus is the astral plane Yesodic..and then from there Malkuth..indeed is a morbid sphere itself..to be able to do the full rotation of self..as if from a sphere...which means perfect bodily coordination...which will result in proper ninjutsu...which is a spherical attempt at bribery...indeed at a loosing causm..and a shake or Sheik..is a Needle Causm..which can be said to paralyze people...indeed a pin in the right place can paralye a person..maybe 3..in the upper tertiary of the back, the upper left trapezius, and upper middle trapezius; Leaders are born this way..in lead do we find mercury..and alchemy is about a potion..or smoke bomb..indeed is a Great Dejour..or Djinn..is what you look like proper for the time? Yes it is..indeed as a late main and gate...indeed it is wrong to shave your head at the wrong time..indeed you look like the man of today..which is what modelling is about..like a holocaust..is the pathway of the model on here walkaway..Runway! Models are Christ..which is a notion of healing..and perfect self...which is etched in time..and then from there you can learn pins..and in acupuncture..and even acupressure . Neither nor far return...or the atlas of the prime..or pine of the attic..is indeed about free will and ninjutsu..which is a stealing stealth game..for the republic..with telekinesis..and the djinn of the comedy of tomorrow. Commentary is of the Djinn..but your real self..IS a deadly Ninja..which is why noone is allowing you to talk about your more than mordern Neo Plasty..or Holocaustol avenues!! St joachims is a prayer..for the witnesses of Shinobi...which is what I am..as Brendan Cassidy..and Jeers and Dynamic Bass..is of the Sherlock of Time..which is a Cube..so we go with proper forms..and explore the meta universe...indeed pinning..or tearing the fabric of existence...is indeed a good form itself..which means you can map all forms and everything..in true knowledge and nothing..which is an academic itself..with all the rights to the party..as a Mona Lisa...or the Louvre in General..which is what Jet's are For!! 4 The Ryu in the House...which can spring uoop...and punch the ceiling..indeed its a worth autobiiography...Saint James...indeed as a Spagetttie incident.. Realizations are true...at the top of November...indeed as a Witness to december..which is cold and foggy..indeed it is always cold and foggy in Japan...which is Why Yakuza deal in Threads...and weeds...indeed as an ancient culture...you would die within the Yakuza...which is a bunch of random nobodies anyways... Real Yakuza...are still in Japan..but only as a witness to the time itself..as a Soul and endeavor which is a calm spell smoot..and snoot..and soot in HJapan..which is well with JKanmananpes
Kamikaze is a right for the religous in the development...inside the Einstein of Time..which is a 6D Cube..which some people call a Tesseract...or deeper minded subject...with the results to spread thread...as a Shalom to the home indeed is the body..of the very veracity of the cycle..of time itself..which is a common noose thread syndrome..or tiny Speil or Thread or weave or knot, or spin,, ior pin, ir pine..indeed as a carier of HIV...I have the Aids virus...but people still like me..because I smoked a joint with a Person I know to have had HIV>..which is still positive still because is the reason i dont date anymore..and the goods that are good are good..indeed as a weather channel..and the news is a frequent October..out of the hounds of Hell...Ninjutsu is like this..so if you are at war..then you do it online..and thats here and now..which is the surgeon it itself..or the other fine wine..the truth is the truth..but the lief is a falsehood..of the conditions of october..which are within Breaths reach or grappling..in and out of the parade of time..indeed it is a great november..which is within Rachel Welches Underarm closet..
This thread has sort of derailed, let’s get it back on track. If Ninjutsu is primarily espionage/intelligence gathering, then perhaps as a definition we should focus on what made it specifically ‘japanese’. My perception on it is that while espionage and intelligence gathering is common to all cultures, japan was the first (only) place where is was transmitted as a specific identifiable system. An early western commentator on ninjutsu stated just this “Where a Ninja differs perhaps from anything we have known in the west is in his organization of this knowledge into a separate discipline of education” - Zen Combat (1962) by Jay Gluck p.173 Here is the link for this, it appears that it predates even Andrew Adam’s earliest Black belt magazine articles, his chapter of ninjutsu is quite interesting, quoting from sources other than the Takamatsden line. http://vintageninja.net/?cat=16 One of Takamatsu’s few interviews made with Tokyo Sports when asked if ninjustu was just onshinjustu (body hiding skill) was quite specific: Q: Is ninjutsu to hide the Body? A: No, it is not. The name “ninjutsu” was given after the technique was developed. It is a very deep truth which originated Japanese Shinpo (god’s treasure). The chronicle which is handed down I the Viscount Kuki family is called Kukishin Ryu Happo Hiken Jutsu. Also Yagyu Ryu Happo Hiken Jutsu is written in the Yagyu Ryu Okugi. There is Happo Hiken Jutsu in Iga Ryu. These are the basics on ninjutsu. And then he clarifies futher: Q: What is Happo (Eight Rules?) A: (1) is Taijutsu (body technique), asukajutsu (bird flying technique), nawanage (rope throwing) (2) Is koppojutsu (cracking bone technique), jutaijutsu (flexible body technique) (3) sojutsu (spear technique), naginatajutsu (halberd technique) (4) teijutsu (stick technique), hanbojutsu (half stick technique) (5) kobannage (capstan throw), kenjustu (dagger throw technique), shurikenjutsu (knife throw technique (6) Kajustu (fire techniques) suijutsu (water technique) (7) chikujogan ryakuheiho (technique to attack soldiers who are fortifying a castle) (8) onshinjustu (body camouflage techniques) - Tokyo Sports August 30, 1963 - Ninja and Sports by Shizuo Koizumi Assuming the English translation from the Tetsuzan Bujinkan densho is correct then a number of interesting elements emerge. Firstly he doesn’t seem to mention that this system is specific to Togakure ryu , leading to the speculation that the happo is for some other ryuha. Secondly kenjustsu is noticeably absent in the above list (despite the sword being the most common weapon in every historical ninja manuals to date). Thirdly the subdivision of the above skills is pretty systemic - • Specific ‘body’ skills • Martial arts (why was taijutsu not included here instead?) • Polearms • Staffs • Thrown weapons • Elemental techniques • Fortification attack • Body Hiding techniques. The last three occur quite often in ninjustu manuals. Elemental techniques are effectively Pyrotechnics and swimming techniques. Attacking a fortification is commonly described in older manuals. Onshinjustu or body hiding technique, the classic ninja skill which the interviewer asked about and described at length by authors such as gingetsu itoh, is hardly elaborated upon, as if it was just one skill rather than the focus of the entire art. This is interesting when compared with Hayes first trip to Japan and his four week stay at Tanemura’s farm where his first exposure was to a specific curriculum, w.hich bore some similiarity “He also touched on the eight other levels of ninjutsu: jumping and climbing, stick fighting, blade fighting, cord and chain technique, utilization of natural elements, the art of invisibility, medicine and psychic control” - Black Belt Magazine, July 1976, Ninjas a vanishing breed of knights without armour – by Andrew Adams You can read further below. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ack belt magazine hayes ninjutsu farm&f=false This is interesting as it seems that Tanemura adopted an eight/nine fold subdivision for his own curriculum. It seems as Hayes himself (knowingly? – he gives no indication) has followed the same format as his To Shin Do system offers (or at least appears to) beyond hand to hand skills (taijutsu) a further seven courses to supplement learning: • first-response emergency medical treatment • methods for survival in hostile environments • security protection for dignitaries • law enforcement specialties • intelligence gathering systems • how to instruct classes and run a school • classical Japanese weapons One has to wonder is he believes the above skills are what are required for a ninjutsu practitioner in this day and age, though it may be coloured by his experience as acting as the Dalai Llama bodyguard for a while as much as his stay with Tanemura. This division of structured learning is of course not totally without precedent. In Europe while the learned learnt the 7 liberal arts, and the worker learned the 7 mechanical arts, knights had to learn the 7 knightly arts. Petrus Alfonsus described these in 1062 descrined these as Probitates haec sunt, equitare, natare, sagittare, cestibus certare, aucupari, scaccis ludere, versificare. (riding, swimming, archery, fencing, hunting (or falconry),chess playing, poetry (or music). Later in the Mirror of knights (1400) a knight was described as having to learn how to Ride, Swim, Shoot, Climb, Joust/tournament work, Wrestle, Courtly manners/games You get the picture. The arts of knighthood changed from place to place, but broadly followed the same format if not composition. This of course brings into question the 18 skills mentioned in Togakure ryu, which is even a larger list. But even so if they are compared to the 18 skills of the Samurai, while similar there is a change in emphasis. Which leaves us to the conundrum as to what the essential skills that make ninjustu stand out are. The Basenshukai is even more sparse, as it claims that irrespective of his skills a ninja must have three particular excellences – Observation, boldness, and a quick tongue/mind. Perhaps then ninjutsu is less a collection of skills rather a function and a mindset.
Or maybe in other places they were just better at keeping it a secret? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "a specific identifiable system". Do you mean a standardised curriculum, rather than master/apprentice system?
Perhaps. There has been some suggestion that the Jesuit order had a standardised way of relaying information through codes and middle men throughout religious wars in Europe, but nothing that suggested espionage skills. The earliest modern equivalent u can think of is the curriculum that evolved fir SOE agents throughout WWii of which only the Canadian version is public. I don't believe there was a standardised curriculum (or was there...i might touch on this later) but rather that the transmission of the knowledge was a thing in itself, regardless of the composition.
So everyone engaging in occidental espionage from the classical era to WWII just made it up as they went along? I find that hard to believe.
