Leo Gaje - Another one bites the dust

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Florete, Dec 13, 2014.

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  1. Florete

    Florete Valued Member

    Saw this on a prominent PTK instructor's Facebook page earlier today (emphasis mine).

    Unreal.
     
    Florete, Dec 13, 2014
    #1
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Think this might be FMA's version of a "no-touch knockout." Reading that has given me a splitting migraine.
     
    ap Oweyn, Dec 14, 2014
    #2
  3. Florete

    Florete Valued Member

    Funny.

    I recognize that English is not GT Gaje's first language, so I am willing to cut him a large amount of slack in that department. Its the content it contains that I find crazy. When Tuhon Waid was given his walking papers, at least there was legitimate acrimony between him and other high ranking PTK practitioners, and it went on for several years (I'm not saying I am a fan of how it was handled btw, just making an observation). This however, just seems weird.
     
    Florete, Dec 14, 2014
    #3
  4. kuntaoer

    kuntaoer Valued Member

    This is a common thing over the last few years within the PTK family.. I am wondering who is next on the wheel of fortune
     
    kuntaoer, Dec 14, 2014
    #4
  5. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Comes across more like a cult than a MA style.

    Seriously, having to send a representative there to declare ones loyalty? Sorry, it's creepy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
    aaradia, Dec 14, 2014
    #5
  6. Florete

    Florete Valued Member

    Agreed, with both of you. The system itself is great, but the politics, as well as the eccentricities of GT Gaje, are concerning.
     
    Florete, Dec 14, 2014
    #6
  7. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    I do wonder if he had a thorough, proper medical examination if they might say he's just eccentric or he's gone looney tunes.
     
    Ular Sawa, Dec 14, 2014
    #7
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I wasn't commenting on the language. I also recognize it isn't his first. I'm commenting on the needless drama.
     
    ap Oweyn, Dec 14, 2014
    #8
  9. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    But As I said the last time we read about Gaje's mad ways, there is other PTK organisations and a whole bunch of independants. People don't need to go to PTK Global.

    I'll admit I'm getting a little tired of a great system's name getting dragged through the mud. So just thought I'd write that for people outside the FMA world :)
     
    Bozza Bostik, Dec 14, 2014
    #9
  10. Florete

    Florete Valued Member

    I see. Thanks for the clarification. Personally, I do find the manner in which he communicates to be difficult to follow. However, we are in agreement on the rest.
     
    Florete, Dec 14, 2014
    #10
  11. Florete

    Florete Valued Member

    I totally agree. There are multiple PTK organizations now, as well as those teaching outside of the structure of a larger group. As such, it is entirely possible to train PTK without dealing with any of this junk on a daily basis.
     
    Florete, Dec 14, 2014
    #11
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    With all the people they seem to kick out, I am sure at some point there will be more exiles teaching this than those left in the style under this leader. Or they may have already reached this tipping point already.

    Thing is, I for one would steer clear of this group, exiles or those still within, due to all the politics I have read about. This public airing of politics does not make anyone tied to this look good.
     
    aaradia, Dec 14, 2014
    #12
  13. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Quite honestly this kind of stuff is in a lot of martial arts/MA organisations, it's just PTK Global's turn.

    I find your opinion quite odd, Aaradia, as most kung fu styles have had their own fair share of problems...perhaps far greater than kali ever has.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
    Bozza Bostik, Dec 14, 2014
    #13
  14. Florete

    Florete Valued Member

    Indeed. Heck, go start a Hapkido lineage thread sometime and see how that goes.
     
    Florete, Dec 14, 2014
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  15. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    With all the nonsense that happens in martial arts, I am surprised that anyone bothers training! :)
     
    Bozza Bostik, Dec 14, 2014
    #15
  16. Florete

    Florete Valued Member

    Agreed.
     
    Florete, Dec 14, 2014
    #16
  17. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Sure it exists, but my school teaches us to not get into these kinds of things. We are taught to let the quality of our MA do the speaking for us. If I see a criticism of my school, I am not going to come to its defense. It just makes my school look bad to get into a online tiff. Likewise, I am very careful about criticizing other schools, lineages, or styles.

    This whole online debacle only shows me the wisdom of my school's stance.

    My criticism here - note - is about the politics being cult like. But I would never take sides on their lineage (even if I knew enough to do so.) or the quality of their art. I am sure the actual MA is quite fine. But the cult like attributes here go beyond the scope of MA or politics IMO. I am serious when I say it sounds like a cult and that is disturbing. Oaths of loyalty? Seriously?

    Yes, CLF has some nasty lineage wars. I had a quite rude awakening to that when I first got into online forums. I looked at it. It made all involved not look so good. It also hurts CLF as a whole to have these rifts.

    I have ignored these lineage wars and gotten to know (online) some great and knowledgeable CLF people who studied lineages that some consider rival lineages. I also love to study youtube clips of various lineages and compare what we do alike and what we do differently. Then talk to those from those other lineages to find out why we do what we do. It is great learning.

    When a school from my Federation is not available in an area, I have recommended "rival" schools to people in threads online. We are all brothers and sisters in CLF and we are all brothers and sisters studying any martial art.

    And yes in the past our Federation head got into some online war discussions. (It is all out there on the Internet.) And frankly, it didn't come across well. I think my schools current position is taken from learning from that past, but that is just a guess on my part.

    For all CLF's wars, I have yet to see someone kicked out of an organization due to the politics. And I have yet to see someone do weird cult like things like making people travel across the country to swear oaths of loyalty. That goes beyond MA criticism and into creepy cult like status- which is just wrong in any organization- MA related or not.
     
    aaradia, Dec 14, 2014
    #17
  18. Florete

    Florete Valued Member

    You bring up some good points. The cultish attitude of GT Gaje is something which has been disturbing for some time now. Thankfully, with the things which have been going on the last couple of years, many are now waking up to that fact.

    I really don't have too much of a problem with booting someone from the organization. However, I DO have a major problem with the idea of rescinding rank which was legitimately earned. Either they earned it, or they did not. If so, it is no longer yours to take away. If they didn't, that says far more about the person doing the giving than it does the one receiving.
     
    Florete, Dec 14, 2014
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  19. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Yes, and this is another cult like thing to me.

    Once one is deemed qualified to teach and pass on rank, that is something earned and cannot be taken away. You either have the skills or not. One does not magically unlearn a skill or ability to pass on said skills because a leader doesn't like the person anymore.

    Yes, I suppose one can say they don't represent a particular organization, but the posts I have read make it sound like they try and ignore their ability to pass on the art in general.

    The part where the leader of this organization said no one is allowed to pass on rank to anyone besides the leader and his son is another thing I found disturbing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
    aaradia, Dec 14, 2014
    #19
  20. Florete

    Florete Valued Member

    Agreed on both things. I can understand wanting to centralize who can promote, particularly past certain ranks, in an effort to keep quality control high. However, that is obviously not what is being done in this situation.

    When the Tim Waid stuff happened a while back, someone (not me) wrote an article that I found interesting as a take on the situation. http://filipinofightingsecretslive.com/2014/02/24/lessons-from-the-tim-waid-experience/
     
    Florete, Dec 14, 2014
    #20
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