Legal issues w/carrying a knife

Gotta say:
Aside formt he Legal issues, why the hell would you want top carry a knife for anything other than work anyway? Carrying a knife with the intent to use it on someone clearly indicates that you have some kind of moral problem.
Carry a pocket stick ffs.

 

Yes it does make sense, look at it this way, if you learn the true in's and out's of how the knife really works then you stand a far better chance of defending yourself against a knife, but still bear in the mind, the person with the knife will always have the upper hand no matter how much training you do and how good you think you are.

Go up against a knife and you will get cut, it is all a matter of where you get cut that counts.

Another questionto you, why did you start training in a knife art in the first place? Did you have the intention of stabbing people? even if in self defence.

If you did, then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.

Better to know it and not use it than not know it and need it as they say.

Just a thought.

Pat

 

Just don't carry knives.

Do people not see that carrying weapons is the behaviour of a scared little man?

Why would the man who has nothing to fear suddenly run for his weapon?

 

You're always free to take the simplistic route. No one can stop you.
You're making mass generalizations here.

 

The simplistic route is to do nothing. Generalisation it may be, but I stand by it. For what reason would you carry a weapon other than through some derivative of fear?

It's not like learning a martial art which can be for health and spiritual benefits, or even learning a weapon based martial art. Actually leaving your home with a weapon on you (other than for training or fishing or camping or something) says you're scared that someone else might attack you, and you might need that weapon to defend yourself.

Surely the man who has nothing to fear has no need of such precautions?

 

I don't know if I agree with that concept completely. My dad has carried a knife his entire life. I don't think he's ever had to use it in a dire situation. But he's a relatively handy guy with his fists and has never struck me as someone who is operating out of fear. I would imagine that it's more force of habit and culture.

I grew up seeing my dad carry a knife since I was old enough to see - and now come to think of it... my grandfather as well. They both used them around the house, in the yard, out fishing/hunting etc. When he figured I was old enough/responsible enough I was given a knife for a birthday present. Granted it was a folder - your common pocket knife. But that makes precious little difference if you had to cut someone with it or you were not bright enough to respect what a knife can do.

(BTW the above paragraph applies equally as well for guns)

Later in life I went into a line of work where I always carried a knife (LOL! and a pair of trauma shears) and so it's nothing odd to carry a folder clipped inside the waist of my jeans. I certainly don't walk around in fear... having spent the last couple of years in competitive Muay Thai I'm more likely to throw a low round kick to the outside of the knee than I am to pull a knife.

In fact the one rare instance when I did have a hassle with some low life I took the extra precaution of handing my knife over to my mates. And then proceeded to punch the guy out. LOL!

Ok, I think I can agree with you here to a certain extent. Perhaps I didn't understand clearly what you were getting at.

There are any number of MA n00bs and others who think that a knife is instant toughness... but sadly many don't realize that in most situations adding a knife only escalates the situation towards an unfavorable end.

Many people kid themselves that they could stab someone.... not likely for a large number of people... nor could they deal very effectively with the emotional aftermath (read as trauma) of having killed or severly hurt someone with a knife. It's no small task to have to get close enough to use a knife the actually put someone down with it. Those people who have know that it's a very scarey experience and it never ever leaves your mind. It's an instance that you will be stuck replaying in your head for many, many years to come.

 

This is not a second amendment discussion, as BiaKai has indicated. If you want to pop off about right to maintain a well regulated militia, do so in another tread. Or, at the very least, do so in a way that is tangentially related to the conversation.

@sheyja, stj

Sheyja, did you grow up in the US? In a rural area? I think that your conversation underlines a difference in thinking between people from rural and urban areas. In my (rural) hometown, knives are tools, and consequently most men I know carry knives. In urban NYC, knives are a weapon.

@Pat

Your reasons are all very valid, and noted. Since you asked, I started studying Kali by circumstance- my thaiboxing gym offered Kali as well, and things went from there. I am a proficient fencer, so the big attraction was just the fun of it- I really like it. Hopefully it will remain a sport activity for me.

 

Man, I was beaten on the 2nd amendment. :cry: Well, since nobody pointed this out, it also has the word "militia" in there. Is anyone here part of a militia?

Anyway, continuing on with the knife talk, I seem to remember that in Chicago, any knife which can be opened with one hand was considered a switchblade, and thus illegal. I'm not sure if thats been changed or not, or if theres something more to it. I also believe that knives over a certain size are banned. You could always join the Boy Scouts. When doesn't a Scout need a knife?

 

Why thank you my kind man. Hopefully your right it may well remain just a sport, but to be on the safe side and hedge all your bets, keep on training is all I can say, and if your enjoying the training what more reason do you need anyway. I always say, if it is fun do it, if not leave well alone.

It is good you raised the point though, it has had some good responces and some very well.... I will just leave that at that shall I. And if you never ask the question, no-one will ever give you the answer, after all is that not what places like MAP are for anyway.

Best regards

Pat

 

2 bits.....

Being an american,from the SOUTH, and living in the UK,I find it damn hard not to be able to carry a knife.More to the point,some coward law generalising ALL people as criminal just for having one.
I have had a knife for as long as I can remember.
I come from a working class(god I hate that term) that has always used knives for hunting,working,"witlin" or whatever,it's just something I have always done.
And I'm sorry,screw the blanket protests and generalisations,but I am NOT a criminal!
Now of course,us "simple people" from the deep south,obviuosly have one thing over the rest of the "civilized" world.....EDUCATION!
We were taught at a very young age how to respect knives and people and we got to see first hand what a blade can do.Also,if we used a knife illegaly,it wasn't so much the law we were worried about..
It was going to home momma an daddy and even worse...lettin gran'pa get hold of ya! Prison was a joke compared to what they would do to ya!
Also...
If it wasn't for a decent pocket knife,not some crappy swiss army job,I personally,know of a few people who would have died.I have used a knife to help in the rescue of people who's cars were under water(twice) and one road accident that didn't fare so well for one,but saved another.
And as for DEFENSE reasons..
I don't know about the rest of you,but I have been jumped a few times in my life and it has never been by one person.It's ALWAYS been a group!
People want to know about "pocket sticks" and all that good "one on one" wepaonry...but they are total crap and completely useless when you have 5 or more guys staring you down,even if they are empty handed,you are still in trouble.
With a knife,and I don't mean a frikken sword,!I! am the one who is going to win!
Preach all you want.But not everyone lives in a rose tinted world.
But I'll make a deal with the entire world,
I'll put my knives away when all the criminals are gone.Not the tools they use,THEM.
Judge me.Don't bury me.

 

1. If there are 5 of them and 1 of you, you think you're the only one who will be carrying a knife?
2. Enough with the "judge me, don't bury me" crap. God, I am so sick and tired of hearing that crap from internet warriors!

 

I'm sick of hearing "from the South". People who live in the "Union states" don't go around talking about how we're "from the North". Theres a reason for that. There is only one USA, and the Civil War, or "War of Northern Aggression", was a long time ago. Theres is no reason to describe yourself as "from the South", because not everyone in the "South" has the same opinions. You seem to be one of those guys who takes pride in coming from the "South", and takes great pride in the Confederacy. Well, the Confederacy lost, and since then, the "South" has been overwhelmed by real American pride. Since you brought up the "South", and education, I'd like to point out that "Southerners" aren't the only ones who are taught how to use a knife safely. I'd also like to mention some Texans, nothing against Texas, who thought that blacks and whites are different species, which is clearly incorrect. So, "Southern Education" might not be as great as you make it out to be.

If you despise the term "working class", then don't use it. Use an alternate description if you don't like it.

I'm also hearing that some laws should be abandoned, because its more effective to have parents beat their children. Personally, I think its better to have laws then parents, who might be drunks, overly violent, etc., beat their children.

One reason why people ask about pocket sticks is because it doesn't mean you have to maim or kill your attacker. Some people might not be able to withstand blood. A pocket stick might give you a little more control over how badly the attacker, or attackers, might be injured. It's harder to say that you're just defending yourself when people have enourmas cuts on their bodies.

 

we have had words in another forum because of your "internet warrior" statement and now you want to bring it here?
Get bent.
I am so sick of these "let the law sort it" sheep.
The reason I am ****ed and making this personal is because I apologised to you before on the other forum and you just ignored it.
They don't teach manners and how to be humble in law school,do they?
Criminals are the reason people like you stay in business and people like you are the reason criminals stay in business.
but as they say................
"you have a tendancy to dislike other people for your own bad habits".

ain't that right,"internet warrior"?!

 

I am sick and tired of people coming on here talking tough and then ending their posts with "I'd rather let 12 decide than 6 carry me". God, how lame that is.

Seriously, do any of your instructors ever talk to you people about the legal ramifications of what some of you spew on this forum? I have never seen such horrible advice given out on a regular basis by people who should know better!!!!

Actually, I am curious, in a serious way. Pat? Any of the other guys who do knife styles? Do you sit your students down and really explain to them the consequences of pulling a knife out on another person?

 

Since this is my thread, and I don't want it to degenerate into a typical internet squabble *cough*baikai/bammx*cough*, I thought I should answer the question.

I know that my Kru tells everyone expressly not to carry a knife, because the consequences of pulling a knife aren't worth it. As I said, the NYPD officers in my class agree 110%. Actually, I once saw my Kru tell a student who was still in high school that he would not teach knife. The rationale, I believe, was that any knife work would only lead to more trouble, and that stick/open hand work was enough to get straight for the time being.

For people at my gym, carrying a knife is not a reality. Perhaps if I was in another more dangerous nation (read- not the South) I would feel differently, but for now I don't want my pride to put me in jail.

 

The second quote is from Lethalo's website concerning dealing with terrorists. If you want to comment on that website, there is a nice long thread which can be found on MAP's general discussion board. I just thought that I'd include that. I'd like to point out, that if citizens start carrying knives, criminals will carry knives, or even guns. Why would a criminal not carry a knife if they knew most people had one on them? Essentially, I'm saying that an arms race would erupt.

Another thought is that law was created for a reason. That reason is the protection of all citizens. If we start ignoring the law, then we have a certain lack of protection, and a lack of enforced rights. When rights are no longer enforced by law, then have a tendency to be ignored. That is why I don't mind knife laws.

 

I can't speak for the others, but those of them who know me will tell you, even if I have been teaching them for years, I always, always tell them what the concequences are when it comes to dealing with a knife, I also make statements when showing certain applications such as "you can do this as long as you don't mind spending a long time in prison".

Knife fights get very very ugly, very very quickley and no one, and I mean no one comes out the other end un-scaved, If you lucky you may walk away with your life, no matter how good you think you are.

So for me, yes I do. As for the others you would just have to ask them.

But I will tell you this, if my back is against the wall and I have no other option I too would rather be judged by 12 as opposed to being carried by 6. What about you???

Best regards

Pat

 

Well thank god for that. I can only hope that other instructors are like you, Pat, and actually teach people the consequences of their actions along with the fighting part of the art.

As for your question to me... I can honestly say that "I have no idea how I'd react". Unlike some of the big talkers here, I don't know if I'd freeze up, react enough to get away, or just kill the guy. Really, I have no clue. Certain things are becoming instinctual, yay, but then again, I've never had a knife pulled on me in real life.

I can only answer the question asked about the law, lol.

 

Excuse me, I started my post like that!



Believe it not BGK, I'm extremely anti knife. I would never carry one as with laws in the UK the risk of carrying one seriously outweighs the benefits. The laws in the UK are strict regarding knifes and other concealled weapons, which I've explained to many people.

Still not sure why the statement is lame, you need to stay calm and think things through How could be being in a box be the better option It just doesn't me I'm a knife weilding lunatic..

 

It's lame because every tough-talking jackass on the net uses it as an excuse to act all macho, when the reality is that a majority of the people who say it have never even had a knife pulled on them! Therefore it is of the lame.

EDIT: And, no, that isn't necessarily directed at any person in particular. But being a member of two MA forums, and a lurker on a few others, it's amazing how many people say this and really don't understand what they are really saying in terms of the consequences of their actions.