Discussion in 'Injuries and Prevention' started by belltoller, Dec 5, 2013.

  1. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    A couple of weeks or so previous, I decided to go to the park for a run. I warmed up via a nice long fast walk and then decided upon doing some serious, flat out, as fast as possible speed running, min. rest, jog, then flat-out.

    I was on the second or third leg of it and felt the most savage pain in the back of the left leg. I limped the next couple of miles in the dark back to the car. I assumed it a badly pulled muscle.

    Eventually it righted itself. Then one Sat. evening I went for a two mile warm up job ahead of my planned work-out. The jogging wasn't too bad, but I did feel as if my gait were odd, somehow, as if my steps were tentative.

    Again, I felt the back of my leg cramp - though the pain was not near as severe as it had been a few nights previous.

    I came home and proceeded with the work-out - which mainly consisted of cross-fit type routines and dumbbell lifts. No problems except some soreness in the back of the leg.

    The next day found me extremely stiff and limping a bit. Over the course of the next few days I began to have discomfort in the back of the leg while sitting and a lot of stiffness.

    While warming up prior to boxing class, I felt a very strong and uncomfortable tug in the muscle of the leg again, except the pull was in the front thigh muscle - like a Charlie horse. I carefully stretched and eventually worked it out. With the adrenaline from being in the class, I didn't notice the pain.

    I began to worry that I had some sort of sciatica as the pain began travelling up to the lower left buttock area and felt as if the hip were trying to come out of the socket. The only relief came from using the most heavy duty stretch bands and stretching out the leg. Miraculously, the pain and stiffness would be gone.

    For a while.

    Then, while playing dodgeball with the kids, I took a step back and felt the most savage pain I've ever felt in the back of that same left leg. Let out a yelp and slammed my open hand through the sheet rocked wall of our basement.

    I liken the pain to being stuck by a blade - feels like getting hit by a blunt club or cricket bat - except this is worse, much worse.

    Again, oddly, I found the only relief to be stretching bands...but now the 'snap', 'stab' occurs just about everytime I take a step backwards to fast, rotate a bit to quickly throwing a punch - sometimes crippling pain.

    Oddly, doing a front jump/snap kick does not seem to aggravate it.

    The muscle soreness now radiates from the lower buttock down to the knee cap and shin area. I walk with a visible limp everywhere now and have to mind myself when bending over to tie shoes, etc.

    Stretching with the bands help, allows me to do the crossfit, jump rope for a while, but the 'allowance' is becoming less and less.

    Yes, of course, I've made an apt with an orthopedic surgeon - late next week.

    Wondered if some of you have had this before, what it could be.

    Pulled hamstrings this bad?

  2. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Sounds like a bad hamstring pull or tear.

    I see it a lot with the soccer players I work with, if so it will need a lot of rest, like actual rest, not gentle runs-REST.

    When it recovers you want to rehab it back into strength and start working some bloodflow towards it. While doing this we normally start to try to shift some of the scarring and gunk out of that muscle. Partner massage, LAX balls, foam rolling and voodoo tape etc.

    If you want to know about how we rehab the players. Just let me know.

    That's IF it is a pull or tear. I'm not a doctor nor can I see your leg :)
  3. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    See a doctor,

    rest, rest and more rest....stop stretching it ...

    Did similar in June .... still a weakness ......we are getting old ...

  4. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Don't do any Nordic Hamstring Exercises. :p

    It sounds like you're getting pain when the muscles are activating at the hip (which is why I mentioned the exercise above) vs. the knee. I have absolutely nothing helpful to add as I've never had this sort of injury, mine are always with my knees.

    Try some foam rolling with a soft foam roll maybe?
  5. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    I get almost the exact same pain as you every 4 months or so. It has been diagnosed as sciatica and is excrutiating. Sometimes i get the pain in both butocks and legs. The docs have given me what can only be described as elephant tranquilizer. They recommend me to excercis and stretch. Also i have to see a physio.

  6. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Hi Ope,

    I'm hoping for hamstring pull over sciatica - don't want to hear about herniated disks - which, from the way it first occurred during a high speed run, I'm leaning towards the hamstring.

    Strange, all the running I did in my 30's, I never once had this.

    Happened again twice today - once while I was remolding the garage and a 2x6 came down on me; then again while I was playing with the kids.

    I decided to skip boxing class this evening and give it a bit of rest.

    Glad you work with footballers. Let me ask, do they complain about the inability to back up quickly without injury? Having re-injured this thing several times now, I can say that moving backwards - especially suddenly- seems to be the definitive re-injury point. These fellows do come back 100%, correct?

    Thanks much for the reply!

    Once the Ortho-surgeon confirms what this is, I'll follow up on your offer to share what the pro's do with this.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  7. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Not a chance on that, stretching that leg ( and reading MAP ) is about the only thing keeping me from being a complete loon, right now.

    Look mate, we've to rid ourselves of any of that sort of thinking right now. :)

    Besides, I've not had my first ammy fight, yet.

    You see, I can't get old, not yet. Too much I didn't do.

    Same for you. C'mon now.
  8. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I wouldn't say that. You've already mentioned a good one with the foam roll already
  9. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Awww shucks, don't make me blush.

    ::does Marilyn Monroe pose where she's keeping her skirt from being blown up::

    Your hamstrings do movement in two different ways, one at the knee (bending the leg) and one at the hip (stepping backwards, glutes are used in this a lot too). Most people don't train them both ways and it can result in injury depending on what activities you're doing. From your description it sounds like whatever muscle in the hamstring area pulling the leg from the hip is what's killing you. Interested for the update on what the professional says, I'm just speculating on the little bit of stuff I do know and my own experiences and probably being horrible at it. :p

    Ice, elevation, some type of ibuprofen, foam rolling, and a fresh pair of socks has always worked for me! Steroids are always an answer too! (not really though)
  10. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    ::meanwhile, belltoller worries Ero-Sennin could be a Scotsman in full kit::

    What is the deal with RICE? I'm down with everything 'xcept the ICE part...I know its nice 'n balmy in Fla., but here in the Midwest we're getting ready for an ice storm. I've got to go out in this...fecal material...to salt the driveway and you want me to put ice on that ?

  11. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Hamstring pulls are common in quad dominant people (like the footballers Steve works with), if quad strength massively exceeds the hams.

    Do you do a lot of quad exercises? Do you do any posterior work? What was your build up to sprinting like?
  13. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    This this and this.

    Sprinting while in quadvile is a recipe for disaster unless you sort your business out stat.
  14. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Stair lunges are without a doubt take the largest piece of the exercise routine. I always do stair lunges – regardless of where I'm at – any building I go to, at home, on holiday and I've been doing that for quite some time. I never pass up the opportunity to take the stairs and I always do lunges when I take them. By lunges, I mean taking two, possibly three stairs with each lung. If I have the chance to carry an item of weight with me – even bulky items – I won't pass that up.

    I've done stair-lunges for so long that I feel very odd if I take a staircase in a 'normal' manner.

    I do have a relative short leg length to torso length, however; which makes it more challenging than for long-legged folk.

    I also use a plyometric box with dumbells for additional alternating step work and for mixing up burpee and mountain climber routines.

    I do lots of non-stair based lunges – walking lunges, dumbell lunges, fast/alternating lunges.

    A fair amount of Muay Thai knee work either on bags or with partner or “free-style” When I was in MT, I did a lot of step-ladder routines of various sorts, as well as other routines. I still occasionally do step ladder work, not often anymore.

    leg-raises, leg-lifts, I love doing lateral leg-raises better than anything – except stair-lunges.

    Curl-ups and sit ups are always done with my feet under a suitable object of mass to keep my feet flat – I get as much leg workout on a given sit-up/curl-up as I do for my abdominals.

    Used to do lots of sitting on heels with gradual lowering back onto elbows (never achieved back to floor). I still do a few occasionally - always something I had to take slowly

    I don't know if that involves strengthening the hamstrings or not or how quad dominant those might or might not be.

    Posteriors?? Sorry to be thick as a brick, but can you be more specific?

    In regards to the particular run where my injury occurred, I had walked around 2 and a quarter kilometres or so before my flat out sprinting began...no other warm up prior to that ( brilliant move in hindsight )
  15. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Posterior: the back of your body, hamstrings, calves, booty, back etc

    Anterior front of your body: quads, abs, pecs, face lol.

    So when I put a back pack on I am posterior loading (which doesn't always mean I'm working the posterior of my body)

    If I put a rucksack on the front of my body that is anterior load.

    Amusingly the back pack example works opposite sides of the body (on the back requires abs to stabilise and stop you folding backwards, on the front requires glutes and lower back to stop you folding forward)

    Hope that helps you out?

    Your workouts are pretty quad (anterior) dominant when you feel up to it (when you are HEALED not when you are bored) I would do some high rep hamstring curls with a band just to get the blood etc into it. If you don't have a band a great tool is a computer chair:

    Sit in the chair with a bit of space in front of you.

    Dig your left heel into the floor as far out as you can reach.

    Pull through the heal to pull yourself forward in the chair.

    Repeat right leg.

    Once it is rehabbed and managing some good distances on the wheeliey chair it's time to add some proper strength work in to it, if you are in the Gym RDL and good mornings are my preferred method. At home swings, ghetto glute ham raise and Encyclopaedia good mornings are a good place to be at.

    Hope I'm helping lol.
  16. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

  17. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I didn't mean I was that thick..:(

    LOL, I know posterior means the rear. I'd meant what exercises to work the posterior.

    Worked out anyroads as the list you provided mentions several. I just don't know how long before I'm set loose to start working them.

    Thanks much!
  18. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Steve already listed a couple of great ones (Romanian deadlift and good mornings). Lying leg curls (Boo! Hiss! Yes I know it's a machine exercise, but...) and hamstring pulldowns are nice for isolating those big chunks of meat running down the back of your thighs. Don't forget isometrics too!
  19. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    High rep lying hamstring curl (not seated!) are a common feature on most of the rehab routines I give out VZ, although I guess that isn't cool on the internet right?

    Standing rock to.

    Some folks love hammy pull downs (I bet I know why you do) but can only really feel them in my glutes so rarely use them myself.
  20. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Check the link I posted

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