Leg locks

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Timmy Boy, Feb 3, 2005.

  1. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    What is the actual reason leg locks are banned in judo? I thought it was for safety, but other grappling arts seem to be able to practice them without this being an issue.
     
  2. Linguo

    Linguo Valued Member

    I've always wondered the same thing myself. Sambo and BJJ appear to manage leglocks without much problem. Perhaps too many people with too little skill attempted leglocks, which caused injuries in competitions.
     
  3. jms137

    jms137 New Member

    Come on! Somebody answer this because I am really curious myself but do not know the answer. There must be a reason. I suppose Kano himself may give an explanation in his Judo book he wrote.

    At a guess I have 3 ideas:
    1) That injuries to knees are harder to mend than those to elbows so the risk in practice is too great
    2) Leg locks are too painful in practice?
    3) That because Judo is a legacy of samurai ju-jitsu locking the leg is not seen as controlling enough because the opponents arms are free to e.g. draw a dagger and stab, eat a sandwich...

    dunno.
    someone enlighten me!

    john
     
  4. alex_000

    alex_000 You talking to me?

    LOL I don't think they did it for safety reasons. Judo is far from safe even the way it is.
     
  5. Captain_Coward

    Captain_Coward Ne-Waza Worm

    Leg Locks were banned because of safety. Unlike locks on the elbow, locks on other joints were found to cause more serious injuries, more often, and to take longer to heal.
    A Leg Lock still survives in the Katame-No-Kata, Ashi-garami.

    They are only banned in Randori and Competition you may still be taught them in the curriculim of some Judo schools though.

    K
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2005
  6. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Before WW2, ashi gatame waza (leg locks) were legal and very commonly used. The knee casualty rate was allegedly phenomenal, due to some practicioners overly cranking in randori.

    If you have a look at some of the older books like, Mifune's "Canon Of Judo" you'll see that in the 1950's, when the book was published, they were still practicing leg locks and now illegal neck cranks even then. It was only after judo became a sport at the Tokyo Olympics that certain rules came in and that techniques were omitted.

    Before, judo randori was done from jigotai, now it's done head-to-head, shoulder-to-shoulder, like a couple of bulls fighting, pushing each other around.
     
  7. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    This is all well and good until you consider that other grappling arts manage to retain their leglocks without guzillions of injuries.
     
  8. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Yeah, but not all grappling arts are in the Olympics. They need that shiny, whiter than white appearance to curry favour.

    And who said that they are not taught anymore? Those leglocks are still taught in judojo, if you know the right people.
     
  9. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    Ah, now this makes more sense! :)
     
  10. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    thats a good point
     
  11. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    Yeah it was, cheers Gunyo.
     
  12. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    No worries Tim.
     
  13. Juego Todo

    Juego Todo Stay thirsty, my friends.

    Again, great posts.

    I'm just thinking the same with wrestling: Why doesn't Greco-Roman attack the lower body? Why doesn't Freestyle concentrate on attacking the upper body of an opponent?

    I guess Judo doesn't retain leg-locks, just "because"...

    (Lame answer, I know!)

    :Angel:
     
  14. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

    in training I have put on alot armbars and alot of knee bars or leg locks fortunatly i have never done somebody's arm but i have done a couple of knees on people. I think the reason it is banned in alot of randori is it comes on pretty quick an armbar you can fight a little bit (little little bit) but a knee bar, there seems to be a fine line between tap and snap. The people i have spoken to in the grappling field agree knee bars nasty nasty.
     
  15. aml01_ph

    aml01_ph Urrgggh...

    Greco-Roman has its focus on takedowns and pins. Submission is not even an important part of the curriculum (if presented at all).
     
  16. Juego Todo

    Juego Todo Stay thirsty, my friends.

    Thanks for your reply. I guess what I was trying to say was more hypothetical, almost like trying to figure out why birds chirp, why snow is white, etc. I have trained in both Greco-Roman & Freestyle since my teens (in secondary school, there were wrestling try-outs, so I'd made the team based on my concurrent training in judo at the time), so I am aware of their content and differences.

    Arts remain different with varying focus on techniques "just because" is what I'd meant. I mean, why are you, you? Why is he, he? If they were all the same, then we wouldn't have different names for them. We should just accept things for what they are: some do this, others do that. That's all I'd meant. Sorry for the confusion.

    Osu...
     
  17. lord s

    lord s Valued Member

    I heared that Judo is from BJJ but it is inventor took out all the dangorous moves and put the safe moves in Judo
    is that right?
     
  18. Juego Todo

    Juego Todo Stay thirsty, my friends.

    Judo originated from Japanese Jujutsu. Judo's founder (Kano, Jigoro) did take out many of the dangerous moves (mostly atemi-waza, although you could see them in the kata), just as you'd stated.

    BJJ originated from Judo & Japanese Jujutsu via Esai "Count Koma" Maeda, who taught the Gracie family out of appreciation for them helping him get settled in Brazil. Maeda was also a student of Kano.
     
  19. Captain_Coward

    Captain_Coward Ne-Waza Worm

    haha these posts go round and round and round...........

    good concise post Juego

    K
     
  20. BRECKDOG

    BRECKDOG Valued Member

    leg locks, in all their forms are fully part of the Judo techniques- but obviously banned from sport (along with neck, spine cranks for similar reasons).

    The reason is that the potential injuries from leg locks (not ankle locks ) are severe and take a hell of a long time to heel-

    The fact is Sport Brazilian Ju Jitsu also banned leg locks for a long time- for the same reason.
    They only re introduced them about 10 years ago cos the Sambo guys who are leg lock masters had too much of an advantage in NHB fights- Ive have read reliably that there was a marked rise in injury rates and alot of old BJJ guys are not mad about them- but no ones gonna advertise these aspects.

    and like anything it comes down to training with sensible people and not taking silly risks.
     

Share This Page