Leg locks in BJJ / MMA etc

Since the IBJJF change in leg lock rules again have reignited the leglock debate, Heres a great Post I found about them.

Important bit here

http://jiujitsuvortex.com/2011/10/24/heavy-artillery-leglocks-for-mma-bjj-submission-grappling/


''Learn to defend leglocks. Even if leglocks are illegal in judo and in the lower belt categories of IBJJF competitions, most no-gi submission grappling competitions allow straight leglocks like achilles locks and kneebars. Some of them also allow the more dangerous twisting leglocks like toeholds and heel hooks. And in MMA it’s absolutely game on. If you train submission grappling, Brazilian jiu-jitsu or MMA, ignoring achilles locks, kneebars, toeholds, and heel hooks means leaving a massive hole in your game.



5. DO tap early
Just like with all submissions, it’s always a good idea to tap early to a leglock. Twisting leglocks like heel hooks and toeholds are especially dangerous because by the time you feel pain, something in your knee has probably torn and there’s a good chance that you’ll be off training for a few months (or more) to do some knee injury rehabilitation. On the other side, if you’re working a heel hook and your partner doesn’t tap, don’t be an ass and send them to the hospital, just roll your eyes, let it go, and congratulate them on how incredibly tough they are.''

 

Hey Fusen

What is the change here for blues? I saw the PDF but still no kneebars toes holds and hhooks??

 

People dont have the control and the lack of ego to Tap from the get go, the amount of 'pure' nogi guys with shredded knees is proof enough for that. white through to blue at least just focus on passing, that way it reinforces good habits for MMA too, i.e. dont give up top position for a potential submission.

Blue upwards none twisting ones for sure.

 

http://www.graciemag.com/2013/01/the-ibjjf-introduces-changes-in-the-rules-of-jiu-jitsu-for-2013/

''Marking penalties on the scoreboard:

All penalties noted by the referee shall be marked on the scoreboard. Ends the concept of gestural penalty. Starting in 2013, counter penalties could go up to three (3) and the fourth penalty will result in a disqualification.

Adding new “Severe Penalty


An athlete will receive a “Severe Penalty” in situations where the athlete intentionally attempts to get his or her opponent disqualified by reacting in a way that places his or her opponent in an illegal position.


Adding new “Serious Penalty”


An athlete will receive a “Serious Penalty” in situations where an athlete unintentionally reacts in a way that places his opponent in an illegal position.

Referee proceedings:

In situations where there IS NOT a submission hold in place, the referee may stop the matchwhen an athlete puts their opponent in a position that is liable to penalty (illegal hold). The referee will return the athletes to a regular position.

In situations where there IS a submission hold in place, the referee will not stop the match when the athlete under attack puts the opponent in a position that is liable to penalty (illegal move).
''

 

Id have to check but it looks like, Youll be warned and given 1 BADBOY point, 4 of them and you get DQ'd

And if you do go for the sub you get DQ'd straight away,

But if your opponant purposly puts themselves in a reap to get you DQ'd they'll be the one with BAD BOY points.

 

The issue with leg locks is that injury becomes before the pain, when added to gi pants making it harder to escape due to friction I think waiting till blue to teach anything bar the straight ankle lock is a good move.

we cover them in nogi drilling from the start, but we roll to ibjjf rules usually.

 

i use leglock holds as transitions and escapes. especially for turtle, never as subs, only as transitions.

i agree with keeping them out of comps because people like to crank but removing the position for a reset seems is a little silly

 

wait wait
just read the bit on reaping.
im cools with this.

 

Where I train we do twisting leglocks from day one. I can't speak for all Sambo or catch schools. The only people I've seen injured by them, competition or otherwise, are people who have simply refused to tap to footlocks. They've almost invariably been blue and up.
Only a couple of them have been twisting leglocks, the majority have been straight ankle locks and kneebars.
Just as a note, this is coming from a group that primarily competes in Hayastan and MMA, and the occasional CACC competition. Except for the ammy MMA, that's heel-hooks and all from the lowest level up. Even the kids at Hayastan can use twisting footlocks, just not HHs.

Now, what I DO see leg injuries from are guard-jumping, osoto gari and simple stubbornness. I don't think I've been to a BJJ or BJJ-based competition where a kid hasn't been put out of the day by a jacked up knee from a guard jump.

No, injuries from leglocks have been, by and large, a culture issue in my experience. Either people who should know what's happening and haven't been taught it or people who do know and don't want to lose to a "gimmick" account for probably 80% or more of the leglock injuries I've observed.

 

Great thread guys. I haven't trained any of them as where I'm at we don't train them until you get into the higher belts.

 

OK I still don't get it, color me stupid. What difference to a Blue or Purple, or even Brown Black, under the new rules exactly?

 

We train them, although not so much from guard, because people might try to not pass guard when they start out, which is an essential skill for BJJ.

#heel hooks should be allowed for brown belts up.

 

in our JJJ we allow straight leg legs at any belt but never twisting leg locks.

Personally I think its best to leave the dangerous locks out until later belts, because in competitions people get over eager and unlike in sparring in class when people see a sub, they tend to go straight to for it with a bit of gusto, rather than gently ease it on (problem 1) and then in turn because the other guy doesn't want to lose he avoids tapping out until it is potentially too late (problem 2)

between these 2 problems there is a lot of potential for injury. In later belts the people have been training for much longer and should be better able to feel the locks as they go on, and in knowing they are locked in a heel hook to tap out straight away.

 

i've suffered one injury from a blue belt heel hooking me, despite me tapping early.

I've drilled footlocks and been a-okay.
I've rolled with people who have caught me with them and been a-okay because they knew how to apply it slowly as you would slowly apply an armbar rather than cranking it.

The problem with not training them is you dont know when its on and when you do get it, you're not confident to put it on slowly.

If you dont train something with control then how are you supposed to learn control? I could snap on an kimura just as fast as a footlock and the same amount of damage would ensue - but training and focused drilling teaches control

SAMBO guys prove that argument.

 

also as most you know - the gracies and their students saw leglocks as "lower class" techniques...

political me thinks...
imagine the SAMBO and catch domination of lowerbelt leagues if leglocks were allowed...

 

There is no difference, in the new rules to the old rules on which attacks can be done at what belt level.

The new rules are about how to treat the reaping position.

 

You might be right, in the 80's, nowadays not so much.