I was thinking about how and in which style can a Dojo or MA tradtion be best lead by a dedicated and earnest person. Is the authoritarian leader the better model as compared to someone who is like a friend and gently trying to impart teachings in a democratic leadership style or a socialistic all are equal style? Can the authoritarian teacher (sensei/guru/sifu) achieve higher and faster results by his concise and sometimes rude behavior?
I think you need a teacher who can recognise which teaching face they need to wear that day. My instructor(s) is my family, a very good freind, someone who praises me when needed, someone who pushes me when needed and someone who gives me a solid kick up the backside on occasion. Not everyone and not even a single person will respond to the same constant, one dimensional teaching method.
I think that a MA-instructor must be a bit authoritarian; however this is somewhat in conflict with the ideal in a democracy. Maybe the students of such a master must be very mature in order to keep the balance between the opposite poles of authoritarianism and democracy.
I think Sam hit it right on the head; a good teacher must be able to respond as necessary to each student as an individual. Take me for example; I don't respond well to authoritarian-type teaching. That's one reason I like the fact that my coaches will let me joke around with them a bit. However, they do have a limit, and the joking goes too far or you get out of line they will call you on it, which is necessary for proper balance. So in closing, "I'm the master, you will do what I say, NOW!" really gets on my nerves, but I do believe the student must clearly understand that the teacher is in charge and must follow directions.
I myself preferr to be taught be someone who is a little bit on the millitaristic side. I have to have some one there to push me to work hard because I tend to get a little lazy at times. But at the same time I think it is important for the teacher to know how far to go with being structured and millitary like because that isn't for everybody, especially children.
I think that choosing a teacher whose teaching style suits your learning style is part of finding the right school. I don't think a teacher has to be authoritarian to be effective. It's simply a matter of matching the student to the teacher in a way that works. Personally, I don't particularly like authoritarian approaches. I'll always recognize that the teacher is the teacher. But I don't need a lot of authoritarian trappings to drive the point home. Stuart
If you feel that the teacher's main concern is the growth of the students then you have found a good teacher. regards koyo
A problem is that beginner students are not allowed to question an authoritarian teacher. And that may be rightly so, because the teacher knows and has much more abilities than a student. I remember the movie "Karate Kid" where the senseis in that cobra-dojo were very rude and nasty. Okay that was exaggerated in the film, but in reality that behaviour might be a possible pattern for many teachers, when their abilities rise....
How does knowing more than the student translate into the student not being allowed to question? Personally, when I teach, I want questions. Shows me that they're engaged, thinking for themselves. And if I can't answer basic questions, then I have no place teaching. Stuart
At a club I spent some time at we had multiple instructors that would teach on different days. One guy was very relaxed and also good, but because he was so relaxed some students who didn't have good discipline would tend to talk and mess around more than they actualy trained which was annoying. Sometimes more mature students would tell the younger ones to get back to training while the instructor didn't say anything. Another instructor was very authoritarian, he would threaten to kick people out if they spoke while he spoke, and you weren't allowed to do anything other than what he said unless you asked for permission. He didnt mind questions though, but sometimes he made you feel a bit stupid for asking. I personally responded better to the authoritarian, because I was mature enough to understand it was about discipline and not macho dominance. However he did sometimes cross the line between discipline and rudeness, I saw him once almost reduce a younger guy to tears because he couldn't do a pattern after many weeks of practicing, and it was obvious he never realy tried hard. I think its the age difference that matters, younger kids need discipline along with understanding, while mature students respond much better to strict codes of behaviour.
While age definitely makes a difference, I don't think it's necessarily always that case that younger children need a friendlier teacher while more mature students respond better to authoritarianism. I'm 17, and I hope I can claim some level of maturity but as I stated before I don't respond well to authoritarianism. I have seen too many cases where authority is abused, and where authoritarianism is used unnecessarily, or to make up for actual ability. Therefore I respond much better if respect is earned by actions, not demanded by reason of rank.
Agreed. In fact, I'd say it's kind of the opposite. That children benefit more from a more structured, regimented setting and adults are self-motivated enough that you can get away with being a bit more casual. That said, I like a teacher to maintain a level of intensity. Keep us moving. But that doesn't require a lot of authority. Just momentum. Stuart
At my school there are three teachers. The aikido coach (John) and the jiu jitsu coach (Chris) are more "laid back" (i.e. they will tolerate some joking and don't order me to do pushups for it ) than Jason, the Tang Soo Do instructor (he is very authoritarian and traditional). They are all very capable instructors and martial artists - I personally enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere of working with John or Chris, but I've noticed that Jason's class seems to attract a larger number of students. This makes me wonder if many people prefer a stricter class? Of course, I also tend to think that the "traditional karate" aspect also attracts people to the Tang Soo Do, so who knows...
I think I'm going to take this is a more general case about coaches/instructors and tutors as a whole, because I have seen surveys that were carried out about this. In my opinion you can only have so many attributes that make you a 'good' teacher - i.e. technical skill, friendliness, communications and such like. What you lack in one you need to make up in another. By this token you find people going to schools because they are friendly with people there rather than because they are learning. Similarly you get people who's sensei is an utter hothead but because they are learning or being trained so well they keep with it. In the terms of performance coaches and the like almost everyone who took one of the surveys I mentioned said that they really didn't care what they were like as long as they got the results. In terms of what people looked for in a club it varied - some went mainly for a social side whereas others went for the training. In general it seemed that people would go for a less social club in exchange for performing better whereas those who were less performance orientated were happier with a more social club. I have to admit I am also inclined to say that some instructors really do dislike questions. In some cases it is primarily because what they are teaching is what they have learnt from years of experience, impirical testing and all this sort of thing, so explaining their motivations is just a waste of time. In other cases it's because they have no hope in answering the questions. So in terms of schools I think a school oriented around performance and excellence would most likely benefit the most from an authoritarian figurehead as a kind of benchmark. Obviously if they were a really nice guy/girl it would be a bonus! As such though the tendancy is that they are always that little bit detatched. In a more social school a much more hands-on kind of involved with people instructor would be most suitable, you know the type who has a chat to you and is scarcely detatched socially. In both schools you may get results, but I think the first is the one most likely to encourage excellence.
Okay, first off, apologies for raising up an old thread. However, I was thinking about this discussion just a little while ago, and realized that calling Jason authoritarian might have sounded negative. And, after working with him more, I realize that isn't the proper word anyways. He certainly runs things a little differently from John or Chris, but he isn't the "bow to your sensei NOW!" type. So just wanted to clear that up and make sure I wasn't giving a wrong impression of him, as he is a very good teacher, and a great guy.
im pretty close to my sensei just after training one on one with him after class everytime for hours, but i think a good teacher can be friends but still be able to maintain authority cause even though were friends with our sensei we still wont second guess him or argue with him, we still know he is in charge.
