Lead leg side kick.

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Vitty, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    While I've not had the knock out effect, my first TKD training partner wasn't a natural, shall we say, we were doing some free sparing exercises, no pads and no real contact - pulling head kicks a few inches before contact etc.

    I feigned a Left Jab to his face while throwing a right round kick to the head, he concentrated on the jab, dodged away from it without noticing the kick and I caught him square in the jaw... (which was odd considering the whole point of the exercise was to feign the punches and throw the opposite kick, so he knew it was coming)

    If I remember correctly at least 4 of his teeth were scattered across the floor...
     
  2. Vitty

    Vitty Valued Member

    That nearly hurt my teeth just thinking about it, I apparently broke the arm of a black belt lady while doing spinning back kicks into the kick shields, but I think she was making excuses not to come to our class so she made up that she was injured.

    Edit: perhaps more info is needed as to why I said she was faking, at no time during the kicks did she show signs of an injury and also we did 50 pushups at the end of class because I left my belt at home and she did them fine, now as a teen I broke my right arm once and my left arm twice (broke both arms at the same time then broke the left again 6 months later.. I must of been a glutton for punishment) as well as fractured my right arm in karate so I know there's no way anyone is doing 50 pushups on a claimed broken arm.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  3. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    We all like high kick when we were young. If we look back, we may realize that to kick someone's face is like to punch his toes. You just let your foot to do your hand job and let your hand to do your foot job. You should let your leg (you need 1 leg to stand) to deal with your opponent's legs and let your hands to deal with your opponent's hands instead.

    When you stand side way, you can cover most part of your body. But you have to fight 1 long arm and 1 short arm. If your opponent moves toward your side door and let your leading arm to jam your back arm, you will only have 1 arm left. In order to have 2 equal length arms, even if you may stand with one leg forward and one leg backward, you still have to twist your upper body. This will make you to expose your upper body more, but that's the trade off.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  4. Vitty

    Vitty Valued Member

    I think it would be easier if WTF rules allowed punches to the head but sadly they say no, although I've never been kicked hard in the head, surely it would hurt more than being punched, I see where your coming from though.
     
  5. TKDDragon

    TKDDragon Valued Member

    If they were to allow punches to the head in WTF that would be the end of the side stance being preferred
     
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    In all honesty I think it's the lack of low kicks that promotes the side on stance, not punches to the head.

    In Kyokushin Karate for example, you strike full contact and without the hogu. As in WTF, punches are only allowed to the body, but kicks to the head are full contact.

    They all spar more square on though.

    IMO (and I'm happy to be corrected as my Kyok experience is tiny, as is my WTF) that's because low kicks are allowed, and leaving your front leg out there will result in it getting kicked to pieces.

    Personally, I'd welcome an end to the side-on stance.

    Mitch
     
  7. TKDDragon

    TKDDragon Valued Member

    Leg kicks would end it too , but punches to the head would have a similar effect. A boxer might be able to explain it in better detail, but a side stance isolated the effectiveness of your power arm , limits footwork and the power derived from it , & handicaps your defensive capabilities close in as you tend to circle away from the back hand if possible was my point. Different points same result :)
     
  8. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I know what you mean, but ITF-style sparring allows headshots and the contact there is almost full contact at BB level. It makes ITF hands pretty poor for the most part, but it's there. Yet they still spar side on.

    Mitch
     
  9. TKDDragon

    TKDDragon Valued Member

    To clarify my knowledge then: Do itf clubs typically allow full contact punches to the head? Most us ones I've seen are light contact where as wtf tends to be heavy contact. The lack of punches to head in wtf promotes a weird side on clinch where one player jams up the other in perfect punching range to the head if it were allowed
     
  10. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I train in a modified form of Kyokushin. We keep the side on stance when leg kicks are allowed, just narrow the width. As a kicker, the benefits of a lateral profile to the opponent are too valuable to give up completely.
     
  11. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Can you explain narrow the width when already in a side on stance please Dan? I'm not following you there. Seems to me a side on stance has no width already?

    Mitch
     
  12. B3astfrmthe3ast

    B3astfrmthe3ast Warning:Extreme power!!

    I think the side on stance is due to the fact the Fighters know they can be getting blasted but as long as they strike in the scoring areas that they can win, so if you took TKD for instance and said ok knockouts can come from any strike of your hands and feet and the points system (1 point for kick to the body) and went to a round system like boxing or MMA then that might help cut the side on stance out quite a bit
     
  13. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    The width of my side stance is roughly equal to a sitting stance (annun sogi, or horse riding stance for non-TKD people reading this). It is fluid and will change as I move around the mat/ring, but the general dimensions are the same.

    A wider stance offers several advantages:

    The lateral profile means the opponent can have a hard time seeing my back foot, which gives me an easier job of making him miss. Say we're in open stance (our hips face the same direction; I would be right-foot-forward and he would be left-foot-forward). He throws a front (left) leg side kick to my ribs. A small push off my front (right) foot allows me to narrow my stance to a more neutral standing position. Not a massive movement, just enough to get my body out of the way by a couple inches. Now, if I'd been in a narrower stance I would have had to move my whole body out of the way by sliding my feet back. But even though my right foot moved back, my left foot hasn't moved. My hips are still centred between my feet and I'm balanced. Now all I do is push off my back (left foot) to drive my hips forward and close the distance with a side kick (or roundhouse kick, hook kick or whatever) of my own, which will score. I've essentially let the opponent close the distance for me without putting myself in a vulnerable position. This tactic works because most opponents will only see my body move closer to them as I widen my stance - they don't register that my head drops too, indicating my back foot has stayed right where it is (the key to not getting caught out by this :) ).

    The same principle applies offensively. If my opponent can't see my back foot, he can't judge my range. The back foot is the key to everything. A push forward off my back foot allows me to close the distance and score. If I keep his eyes busy by doing feinting motions with my head, shoulders and hands, he won't even see me step my left foot up to my right (so my feet are together - I think this was called vertical stance in TKD?). This moves my hips forward by around six inches without even moving my front foot at all (again, watch the head!). I can then drive my hips forward and get significant forward momentum on a kick, but my favourite strategy here is to simply lean my upper body back and kick straight up to score a head shot in punching range. My hips are always between my feet so I'm still balanced.

    A wide stance allows me greater variety in my 'bounce' (I call this ambient footwork). Most folks bounce up and down on the spot. I do too, but sometimes I also open and close my feet with every bounce. But I don't just stay on the spot. I move with it. Say I close my feet on the first bounce. As I open my feet on the next bounce, my back foot stays rooted while my front foot moves forward - I just gained instant range! I mix it up with opening and closing my feet on the spot so it isn't too obvious to my opponent. This takes a lot of practice to get right but is very effective. The way I learned this was to bring my feet together on the count of "One", then push off my back foot (but keep it on the same spot on the floor) and slide my front foot forward on the count of "Two."

    The fact that the first thing the opponent tends to look at is the front leg can be a disadvantage in low-kick rules. I find, in K1 type matches for example, my opponent throws low kicks about 75% of the time despite him being a really good head kicker. My favourite counter is to lean back and kick to the head, which can put my balance at risk because I need to narrow my stance to reduce the time it takes for me to draw my front foot back. Blitzing punchers can sometimes steam roll me here if my stance is too wide and they feint with a leg kick, following up with hands over the top. A key strategy for me as part of my prep for my fight in Feb is to stop trying the smart **** vertical kick counters and just keep my kicks going, two or three to the body and head at a time, following up with hands. Which is hard because I'm a stubborn little bugger who likes to show off! :D
     
  14. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I get you now Dan. What/when is your fight?

    Mitch
     
  15. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    First round of a Karate "league" being held here in the UK in Feb. (New round every month held in a different country culminating in the top 6 fighting for the title at the end of the year). Rules are more or less the same as K1, but with protective gear.
     
  16. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Got a link to a promo website or any more details?

    Mitch
     
  17. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Sure, it's 23rd Feb down in Bournemouth. I'll scan a copy of the poster later when I'm at training if you like? There's also point and semi contact events taking place on the day.
     
  18. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Valued Member

    Sometimes called a switch from a split probe step to lead probe step.
     

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