Kyokushin or MMA?

@ 1888, Lmao tell me why I saw that coming..I dont know why but I picture you saying yup naw man I need more than this something more solid lolol. Hey I tried. = )

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyo4itn-y8w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyo4itn-y8w[/ame]

this animal is clearly sedated, tied up and actually doesn't look fully grown, no punch in the world is going to stop an adult Bull's gore.

 

sorry a hyperbolic article and this painting weren't enough evidence to convince me that a karate chop once severed solid bone.

 

It could have been fully grown. Bulls were a lot smaller back then.

 

fair enough but the way that animal just keels over when he pulls on its horns rather than sending him through the air is strange, I mean we are talking about a Bull that's a strong, strong animal.

 

It's clear it wasn't a healthy bull, probably very old. No matter how awesome you are, you can't kill a bull bare handed.

 

Definitely old or drugged. That said, even when you remove all the hyperbole and trickery, Mas Oyama was a very tough individual.

 

no disagreement with that.

 

my cents.

yingyangzen- a lot of people have wrote and spoken about MMA in its true essence,as a matter of fact, I MADE A MOVIE ABOUT IT:hat:.( shameless plug)

http://vimeo.com/38609466

<after you watch the movie>

Its an ignorance of History when people claim MMA is not traditional. People have had full contact Martial arts tournaments for years and years and only till Judo came along were there even Gi's and a belt system. so they aren't traditional at all.

@grasshopper
forgive my lateness, but most of the points you made come from an ignorance to the art and due to your own current practices. Now i love the samurai, Japan, and eastern philosophy( my anime collection is HUUUGE) but your basing your ideas simply on what you or some of the dojos you know of do. If i took every single Karate move in the world and put it in a book it would just look like techniques. Whoever did those techniques would just learn techniques, it wouldn't function as some sort of means to bestow any ethics other than determination. It as at the core, nothing else but the motives and ideas of the teacher to bestow certain values upon their students. I personally believe that all martial arts teachers should do this to some degree, but that says nothing of the art themselves. the art is just the techniques.

as a matter of fact I'd say BJJ( the boring sloppy ground fighting mentioned eariler) is one of the more traditional styles you can go to now adays.

you could take a bunch of violent youths and teach them to use their violence with tai chi same as you could use it as a tool to calm them and change their perspective. the art is just the tool. So my point is that Know art teaches any moral or ethic principles. Only the teachers who present the arts. Many gyms choose to teach their arts with a more western approach then an eastern philosophy approach. It means nothing of the art themselves.

BJJ was formed on competition and through fighting teachers, something that happend in the martial arts community for centuries. it was formed in the 30s by Helio Gracie. That means it pre-dates kyokushin Karate, & TKD respectively. to top it off the creators are very much still alive policing the system so it stays alive through use and doesn't become like so many Karate schools have become and teach 3 year old blackbelts or forgo sparring in the place of music katas.

as mentioned the thing MMA exceles at is its realism. competition is nothing more then a way to test oneself like every other style of competition. It does not make violent people or bad citizens its actually been shown to calm them down a lot. certain schools teach philosophy to go with it, some even pray.

now it may seem dishonorable because there are no rules but which is the more dishonorable thing? giving your pupils false hope by having rule sets that limit how far they go in training and completely forgetting about entire skill sets- or a system that allows ultimate freedom of expression in combat while still allowing to warriors to fight another day?

 

I think you should perhaps re-read my posts, as I said nothing about the samurai. Karate being an okinawan tradition the samurai are a separate subject all together. I also never said anything about mma not being traditional, I don't know enough about mma to make such a statement. I also adressed what you said about the art being just the techniques, this is simply not the case. If karate where just a compilation of techniques it wouldn't be an art, it would be a science. Karate is also a frame of mind and way of viewing the world. Regardless of wether you want that out of a martial art, that part of karate exists.

 

Tired arguments long since disproven and to be honest from a position of absolute ignorance

 

Man, if it's that dangerous, I had better focus on wrestling or judo so I never have to end up in that terrible "ground" place in a real fight...

 

half that message was for you half that was yingyang. a frame of mind? No sir martial arts in general can be considered a frame of mind. Nothing you have said of Karate is at all mutually exclusive to karate. having the phrase "Do" at the end of it doesn't make its different.

what makes something an art over just a science is the freedom of ones on personal expression. this can be done with Karate, TKD, judo etc. it can not be done with something like gravity, evolution, or biology( though that'd so cool)

the philosophies of Karate were passed down through teachers not from the system. If i teach karate but teach no philosophy with it, its still going to be the style of Karate. the "way of viewing the world" is the philosophy that some( most certainly not all) cultivated through years of practicing it, and chose to pass down to others. It is not a biproduct of Karate itself. its an art as you said, when have you heard of any art being interpreted the same way? (this coming from someone who just graduated from art school in June)

edit- you're knowledge of groundfighting is poor as you fall into the same false hope statements everyone who knows no groundfighting falls into. clammering about eye gouging and biting, or multiple opponents and weapons. let me fix tat real quick.

1.)if you know no groundfighting against someone who does or is much superior your screwed. especially someone of purple belt or higher as they can put you to sleep or break an arm very very quickly against an opponent who is going to make the same mistakes whitebelt makes.
2.) attempting to eye gouge is the most stupid thing you can ever do to someone who has you in a mount.( true story)
3.)on the ground you don't need to see to be effective so the soil doens't matter. its based on sensitivity. they're are thousands of blind grapplers who are amazing because they don't need sight to be good. how many blind karateka do you know?
4.) most people actually believe grapplng to be superior for dealing with weapons as its how you can control the weapons or contort them out of the aggressors possession. even on the ground once you know how movement feels. Have you ever seen any dog brothers videos?
5.)most would also agree that grappling gives you much better control of the situation and to choose how much force you execute. lethal, torture, or restrain.
6.) claiming groundfighting sucks for multiples is like saying Karate sucks for when you're taken down. All things have there limits and nobody claims its perfect. but since grappling is taught to most people who have to deal with violence often( cops, security, military, as well as fighters) for its level of control and focus on technical leverage not power many would disagree that striking is better for self-defense.

plus, to me- I kinda like the sick ego boost of knowing this guy has to call for help to beat me because he can't handle my omata leo.lol

 

I would love to see a video of successful grappling against mutliple opponents - got a link?

 

I would love to see a video of successful striking while you're flat on your back against someone who knows how to fight on the ground- got a link?

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGE-64Wv4Go"]Nick and Nate Diaz jump Mayhem Miller. - YouTube[/ame]


Well, there's this. Miller interrupted one of the Diaz brothers, I believe, asking when he'd get his fight with him and then a bunch of people from the Diaz camp jumped him. He took mount, did some damage, and came out pretty much unharmed despite being outnumbered.


Your turn. Can you post a video of successful striking against an opponent with a bladed weapon?

 

Like this?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY6lbdUq8i8"]KO from the ground! Jake Collier (NoExcusesMMA) Vs. Jesse Geringer @ Al Hraboski's - YouTube[/ame]

 

dumb luck. when this happens frequently we'll talk. but kudos for finding it.

 

not meaning to make the deadly street fighting crowd look good but there's a fight between sergei kharitonov and Semmy Schilt with some sick striking from the ground, I can't remember who was on top and who was on bottom but the guy on his back turns the one on tops face to mush with some vicious back hands so it can be done.

 

nice, that was a freak punch, he must have caught him right in the sweet spot.