Kyokushin or MMA?

I guess that just depends in what you consider karate, it can be taught as a fighting style, and as a way of being. That's why the full name is karate-do, the way of the empty hand.

 

So what would make an art bad?

 

I would say if it teaches mindless aggression, if it teaches abuse of power, and if it just doesn't work. But everyone will have a different answer to that question.

 

Do you see a significant difference between those arts which use the Do suffix and those that don't?

 

Or "China hand" if you want to be pedantic

Quick question - is a headbutt honorable?

 

Well, if you want to be old school we could also say tode, and I see no reason for a headbutt not being honorable, in a self defense situation anything goes, from biting to headbutts.

 

Most shorten in for the purposes of ease, the suffix is just a word, it only if people chose to follow the way. Some do some don't, it's up to them.

 

To your mind does jutsu differ significantly from do?

I'm not too bothered about what "people" choose to follow I'm interested in how you see these arts or even how you think these arts, as a system, present themselves.

 

Which is EXACTLY the point I was making! It is at the entire discretion of the instructor/practitioner

 

What you call your art isn't important. Justu, do, it doesn't really matter.

 

Everything is up to the instructor or practitioner, there are those in every style who leave out important things.

 

I suppose there is an argument that if you are only training in certain aspects of a system then you are not studying the system.

I know for my arts the reiho is an integral part of not only how we conduct ourselves but also aspects of the teaching methodology and background of the arts.

 

Why?

 

If I am studying a fighting art I want to fight - everything else is secondary. If I want a zen like buzz then it is a poor substitute for...well Zen really

 

This is exactly what I'm saying, you may be a good fighter, but if you don't praactice the do in karate-do, you aren't a full or rounded karateka.

 

Then don't practice karate-do, that's your choice entirely. If you want to leave out the do, although I don't suggest it, that's your choice

 

Because regardless of what you call your way, if its honorable its good, if its not honorable it's not. Names are just a way to express that your art has the honorable aspect to it. Names do not create honor.

 

That is not true - it is YOUR definition and that is fine, but it is far from universal and is logically inconsistent.

Do not mistake Japanese culture with being the same as the art

 

Define "honor"

You are entering exceptionally sticky moral territory here

 

This is where the cultural aspects come in, I think especially when dealing with westerners for whom the culture and etiquette is not automatically understood.

I feel that perhaps this is why we get folks going on and on about these aspects whereas in a Boxing or MMA gym shaking hands and paying attention to someone tapping out etc is simply a given and not thought of too much.

Polishing of the spirit comes via hard work and at the end of the day you can work hard at anything.