Discussion in 'Ninjutsu Resources' started by Keikai, Apr 27, 2005.

  1. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Sorry, but that can only be understood through personal transmission -- that is to say, training -- from someone who understands.
  2. tengu666

    tengu666 Valued Member

    Hm, if you are talking about a feeling part, ok. But, I'm pretty sure that the basic part can be explained in a space-time "coordinate system", and means (tools) must be known, therefore can be enlisted. Not specific tecniques, but principles used.
  3. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Sorry, but I don't think I can express it any better than Ben Cole did in this post from another thread:

    And like me, he's talking about having it constantly re-emphasized through physical training.

    If you insist on an exercise to work with, apart from the example I gave earlier for working with the Ichimonji no Kamae form from the Kihon Happo, then this tip from Ben from yet another thread is about as good as it gets:

  4. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Balls On Video?

    Hey, Ben -- something occurred to me just now, perhaps as a result of having Sean and Sophia in class last night.

    Can you see the balls when you're watching video of someone else -- Soke for example -- or does it require 3-dimensional space? (I'm thinking that would almost certainly be a requirement since Kukan is a multidimensional thing.)
  5. KSprenk

    KSprenk be

    About those balls, Lets say two people who were very skilled in kukan and could see the balls, If they were doing a technique or whatever, would they see the same balls? It would seem so to me since space doesnt really belong to anybody.
  6. bencole

    bencole Valued Member


    Most certainly. At the basic level, there is nothing stopping you from seeing the "easy" balls on video. In fact, the ability to see the balls makes viewing the action "easier." You can understand more of what is going on. Sean and Soph have both commented that they cannot help but notice the balls around Soke when watching him on video.

    I think it is more difficult to see the more esoteric balls on video, though. But the most obvious ones are more than enough fun!

    Hope your visitors weren't too distracting....

  7. bencole

    bencole Valued Member

    Yes. The battle will be over the same balls.

    But remember, I can create new ones that do not currently exist. So can my opponent. It starts turning into a very strange interchange, so to speak, at the highest manipulations.

  8. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Sean and Soph weren't, but the baby is so heartwrenchingly beautiful it was hard to stop lookng at her. :)
  9. Kata-Kid

    Kata-Kid New Member


    :love: :love: Could this thread be made sticky, i've learned a a lot from reading it (but whould probably learn even more, as my training progresses) and whould hate to loose know-how presented here.
  10. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned


    This should be a sticky, and the other one about watching space!
  11. Shizukanaarashi

    Shizukanaarashi New Member

    :Angel: Yet again, it is proving really beneficial reading to learn from someone else's experience. I joined MAP out of curiosity, just a bit of fun. What I am finding is that it puts much I have learned into a different, sometimes better context - this being a perfect case in point. I've always been taught about this idea, but without actually "seeing" that this is what I was learning. :Angel:

    Someone new to MA, often tries to execute what they are shown without moving and it doesn't work the way they are expecting it to 'cos they are not creating any space to work in or fail to affect their uke sufficiently to limit their options, balance etc. As I stumble along my journey, I see more and more often, "holes" in what is happening that could be exploited to better unbalance or control my opponent.

    If I understand what is being talked about here then this is because I am coming to appreciate the space we are working in. Much of this appears to be about acting in a way that leads your uke into acting in a detrimental (to him) fashion, perhaps over extending, moving too soon or in a way that suits you.

    From reading Xenmasters post, it all seems very much about learning to improve your intuition and I wonder whether you can very deliberately set out to learn to see this space in any given "technique" thereby setting out to improve your intuition? I mean by playing with it, changing it and learning why it works one way better than another and then working on that with this idea in mind, as well as working with models like the "balls" concept. It works this way because...XYZ, try it this way to appreciate the XYand Z, do it enough from enough different training examples and Bobs your uncle, you've wired it into your intuition.

    Is this learn one thing, know one hundred? :)

    I hope I'm sort of looking in the right direction with this?
  12. Kata-Kid

    Kata-Kid New Member


    Thats more-or-less exactly my thoughts, and that's also why i came with post #49 (being THE noob:rolleyes: ), though i gotta admit that i had to read some of the post 2/3 times before understanding them (read some of'em 4/5/6 times and was still totally clueless:eek: ).
  13. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member


    heh heh

    don't worry about it sometimes its years before it makes sense!

    just enjoy the journey

  14. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6


    Yup again. :cool:
  15. bencole

    bencole Valued Member

    Yes, these concepts are the not the "property" of any one person. They are at the heart of Soke's Budo.

    I personally believe that it is more than just intuition. I believe these concepts can be "worked" and "learned" by using certain tools. We'll see if these tools make any sense to anyone else soon after my seminars on the subject. :D

    Yes. I believe that any technique in the densho is individually trivial. The kata are just tools for allowing one to see the thread that ties them all together. I believe (and not everyone will agree) that the thread is the kukan, and more specifically, the manipulation of these balls of kukan in the environment.

    I guess we have to wait until some people from MAP turn up as guinea pigs at one of my seminars when I introduce some of these tools. :D It does little good to have one of my students rave about my tools and balls! :rolleyes: We need some unbiased guinea pigs who want to experience my balls first-hand! :eek: LOL!

    Looking forward to not being found criminally insane in the MAP court of law....

  16. KSprenk

    KSprenk be

    You are having a seminar on this? I would surely love some details...
  17. Shizukanaarashi

    Shizukanaarashi New Member

    Gary has got me unreasonably excited about your balls Ben, in any other context than this forum, that would be a very worrying sentiment. :Angel:

    Can't wait to be a Guinea Pig, assuming you are able to find the time to skip over the water.

  18. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    Providing I'm not flying that weekend (and I have already put in for vacation) I shall be attending one of Ben's seminars in the next few months. Unbiased? Not sure, because I've been following this thread with great intensity and can't wait to experience (or at least try to) first hand what Ben has to offer. Though I will say, his last seminar, while greatly enjoyed by me and everyone else, was so packed with little nuggets that I may have missed the overall idea he was trying to get across :eek: But the sushi was good :D
  19. Highland Ninja

    Highland Ninja Valued Member

    Yeah, ok, so this is a 2 year old thread resurrection. But it's one of the best, most interesting, and informative posts on the entire site! And I gotta ask Brad for a follow-up. Did this seminar take place? What did you discover there? This is too juicy a topic to leave it dead for two years! :)
  20. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    Yes, the seminar took place. You can read my review here.

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