Kuk Sool training with asthma?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by ember, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Anyone got any pointers? I know sum shaigi is important, and pacing...
     
  2. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    You should've asked Debbie Montgomery about this while you were still at the clearlake dojang. I believe she has this condition.

    Also, If the dojang is not kept really, really clean (I note a dust problem in many that I've visited), that can aggravate the condition, right? So insist on good housekeeping from the school owner. Other than that, I think you already summed it up with mention of proper pacing and breathing.
     
  3. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    I don't have asthma, but I have trained with several people that do. They told me that the best thing long term for them was maintaining cardio. When they lost good cardio they had a hard time with the ashma and because of that a doubly hard time getting the cardio back. No short term help I know, sorry about that.
     
  4. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    It all depends on the individual.

    Adult versus Child.
    Severity classification: mild, moderate (int v pers), severe
    There is a uniform/standardized classification system for asthma.

    Most child asthma regresses. So an adult who has it all the way from childhood...you know something is going on!

    I would turn away severe asthmatics. For other types, always have a bronchodilator nearby. Maintain a clean, dust-free, smoke-free, incense-free, perfume-free environment. Temperature is also an issue. Practice intensity can increase incrementally over time.

    With gradual exposure, most asthmatics should be able to participate in a 60 minute class at full speed within 4-6 months.
     
  5. ember

    ember Valued Member

    If I had been having problems when I was still at the clearlake dojang, you can be quite sure I would have been talking to people with the condition, and figuring out how to pace myself, what breathing exercises worked, what pressure points helped, drinking my mint or whatever teas, etc.

    It wasn't a problem then. Pregnancy changes asthma, sometimes better, sometimes worse. I haven't done research yet on whether nursing does, but since it seems to keep the hormones going longer, that could be a factor...

    Pollen conditions are different in different locations too.

    The gym seems to be fine on housekeeping. Now the office...

    Thank you, that seems to match too. I wasn't having problems when I had built up my capabilities gradually and stayed on regular practice. Add in office dust/mold, pollen allergies, and a lad who needs his Mom, and the training schedule has suffered. I was trying to build back that aerobic intensity, jogging a mile on lunch break 3x a week, plus stretching / bodyweight exercises in the morning, and two evenings of KS practice... until I started coughing up my toes for three-four weeks.


    Michelle - thank you for the post. I don't know the classification yet, it's a brand new Dx... but also not a complete surprise.
     
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Whilst this might be very obvious, it is the only real answer to your question.

    Take medication.

    As for instructors turning away students with severe asthma - if the student's doctor says it's ok for them to train, then I don't see what qualifies a martial arts instructor to overrule that judgement.
     
  7. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Bad advice.

    Mild int Asthma requires no medication. Introducing a low-dose inhaled steroid (1st line treatment) is overkill and actually suppresses the immune system over an extended period of time.

    A person diagnosed with severe asthma with known exacerbations would have a profile like PEFR<50%, SaO2 <91%, PaCO2>42 and dyspnea at rest.

    I don't know what qualifies a martial arts instructor to overrule a doctor's advice not to train with a profile like that.
     
  8. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    I'm sure he meant to take any PRESCRIBED medication. Or did you suddenly become clairvoyant?
     
  9. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Wait, you're sure that YOU know what he meant? Arent you the one who "suddenly" became "clairvoyant?"
     
  10. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    If a doctor prescribes you medication for asthma and tells you that assuming you take your medication you will be able to train, you can train. Any MA instructor who then turns you away for being asthmatic has ideas above his or her station.

    I have allergen induced asthma, which might get classified as moderate-severe on a really bad day when combined with a cold. I don't need to take cortico steroids, but I do tend to carry a β2-adrenergic receptor agonist with me at all times, which I sometimes take before training. I'm fitter than most of the 'healthy' people I train with.
     
  11. KSstudent

    KSstudent Valued Member

    You 2 kids seteldown. :evil:
     
  12. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

  13. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

  14. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    And any MA instructor who chooses to ignore a doctors advice and allows a person to train against medical advice is also having ideas above his or her station.

    There you go...you don't take steroids and only take a bronchodilator PRN. If you are diagnosed with moderate-severe asthma and thats your medication profile...change doctors immediately. Your medication profile is that of a mild-intermittent type asthmatic. The medication profile for a severe asthmatic involves systemic steroids. So unless you have been training with an IV pole next to you (constantly, not intermittently), I think you are only guessing that your asthma is classified so severely.

    Asthma classification is one of the worst understood diseases by the general public. What works for one person does not work for another. That is why there are specific criteria/classification and drug profile associated.

    Let me ask you, how many times a month do you get up in the middle of the night with an asthma attack?
     
  15. KSstudent

    KSstudent Valued Member

    My Guess is Any Dr. that tells a person they CAN't, is speaking above their station.
     
  16. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Pugil,

    People with mild to moderate Asthma can lead normal lives with full life expectancy. But show me an article about a person correctly diagnosed with severe asthma who can compete at the highest level.

    I don't think people really know what a severe asthmatic is. There is a HUGE difference between a severe attack once in awhile and a person who is bedridden, on IV medication, taking steroids daily...who is truly a severe asthmatic.
     
  17. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Agreed.

    I am prescribed steroids, but I don't take them unless I also have a severe cold/chest infection/flu because my asthma is only ever allergen induced.
    I don't. But as far as I know people aren't feeding me peanuts whilst I sleep. I daresay if they were, I would be in a lot of trouble on a regular basis.

    High pollen counts give me what would be classed as mild-moderate asthma symptoms, which I treat with over the counter meds.

    My stance on this issue is pretty simple, if your doctor says you are fit to train, you are fit to train.
     
  18. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Clearly, but I dont think anyone here is suggesting that bedridden people try to train.
     
  19. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    HAHA. That is an excellent point!

    People are free to do whatever they wish and I agree with you that some people can overcome the odds!

    HOCM cases come to mind!
     
  20. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    The reason I asked about night-time attacks is because the classification system uses it as one component to determine severity. In a true moderate-severe asthmatic, night-time attacks can be expected several nights a week.

    As for bedridden people trying to train...this is where the general public can get into trouble. As you may know, asthma is considered a "reversible" airway disease. People with severe disease, for some reason, in my experience, cling on to that one phrase as a means of hope. So when these severe asthmatics get better after a hospitalization, they think strict maintainence of their medication reverses their disease process and some start doing physical activity beyond their physical capability. This causes another exacerbation...landing them in hospital...and the cycle continues.
     

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