KSW Roots

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by AirNick, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. KsnMmC-Scotland

    KsnMmC-Scotland New Member

    cross train lol

    Why would any1 need 2 cross train if you are well versed already in punching range, kicking range and grappling range lol and oh eye have got nice joint locks 2 for mid range lol oh eye and personal fitness trainer, teach ma n pro breakdancer.....lol oh eye and i do ksw lol man man man we say white sum1 say black lol am a ksw instructor n u wont find me bound by my system...obey the principle n rules without being lost 2 it ....I suppose it depends on where you train or who wiff or who ur instructor is. or what experience you have been through...why is it alwayz goin 2 be sum1 typn a diss 2 sum1 else lol damn talk about genuin experiences man..stop the diss of a fellow ma unless u r standing infront of them and sayn match or equall what am about to do lol but that wont happen will it !!!!!
     
  2. AirNick

    AirNick Valued Member

    Nope, I can't understand a word of that
     
  3. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    we'll have to get jkngt to translate.
     
  4. Choiyoungwoo

    Choiyoungwoo Guest

    ditto,, I think it's funny/sad. But it give me something to laugh at. :D
     
  5. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    i found this and thought you all might like to read it.

    HISTORY OF NATIVE KOREAN MARTIAL ARTS
    Written by In Sun Seo

    The majority of today's Korean martial artists believe that the origin of martial arts came only from China. In particular, it is thought by many that the Great Teacher Dahrma, who is known as the founder of the Shaolin Temple, is (also) the father of every kind of martial art. However, this is untrue. This kind of thinking is a mistaken notion, steeped in toadyism. Martial arts are not something that were founded by any particular individual or group. That is to say, martial arts are not something that could be founded in any certain nation.

    The reason is that martial arts started as natural outgrowth of techniques used from prehistoric times by primitive people to find food and to protect themselves and their families from wild animals Therefore, all areas of the world have indigenous kinds of combative arts used for developing mind and body, as well as for fighting.
    In addition, all kinds of indigenous weapons techniques have been developed throughout the world. Among the various early weapons that existed, there have been different kinds of both rough and polished stone tools excavated in every part of the world. From many parts of the Korean Peninsula, too, stone swords, stone knives, stone spears, stone arrowheads, stone axes and so on have been unearthed. The range of finds in Korea extends from Kyunghung Province; Hae Ju and Anak in Hwanghae Province; Yangyang and Choon chun in Kangwon Province; Ansung in Kyung-gi Province; Puyo in south Choonchon Province; Andong and Kyungju in North Kyungsang Province; and Mirang in South Kyungsang Province. It's reasonable to assume that Korea's forefathers used these types of stone weapons for both food-gathering purposes and also for self-protection against wild animals and savage enemies.

    The stone-throwing techniques of those prehistoric Koreans have survived down to this very day and are called too-suk sool ('stone-throwing arts'). The awesome effectiveness of these stone throwing techniques was amply displayed in the battles at Hangjin and Chinju mountain fortresses during the Japanese invasions into Korea in the late 15th century under Hideoshi. In addition, it is recorded that members of the royal family and high-ranking scholars of the Shilla Dynasty enjoyed a game developed for amusement called doo-ho (an ancient game of pitching arrows into a pot). Other forms, such as sword-throwing and spear tossing developed out of this, and it is not difficult to conjecture that archery also was connected with this kind of activity.
    As human civilization advanced in Korea, an agricultural society gradually emerged. Ancient Koreans, who had originally lived around Mt. Bektu (between the borders of modern day North Korea and Manchuria), began to migrate southward and settle where the living environment was more attractive. It can be presumed, therefore, that because of an increased awareness of and a greater fondness for territorial possession, it was necessary for that society to cultivate new and improved types of combative skills.

    A sedentary lifestyle led to a collective social body. In the communal system, clan units merged together into tribal units and a clear distinction between the leaders and the followers came about. In addition, feuds and struggles with other tribal units naturally resulted. Under these conditions, individuals could not help but try to maintain a strength that was mightier than that of other individuals in order to protect themselves and their own group.

    In order to attain this kind of superior strength, people trained themselves through running, wrestling, swimming, hand-to-hand fighting, and other such activities. It is also natural to assume that the fundamental development of such weapons as staff, spear, swords, bow and ax took place around this time in the civilization's history.

    Unfortunately, there are few detailed accounts of ancient Korean martial arts in existence today. In the Samguk Sagi (History of the Three Kingdoms, written during the 12th century), there are merely fragmentary allusions to a double-sword dance in the nation of Karak (Karak, also known as Kaya, existed on the southern tip of the Korean Peninsula between approximately 42 BC to 562 AD). In the Samguk Yusa (Memorabilia of the Three Kingdoms, written during the 13th Century), it is recorded that generals in the three kingdoms of Koguro, Paekchae, and Silla trained hard at martial arts and contested among themselves. However, there is no detailed description of the martial arts used or the specific techniques involved.

    Even though there are no detailed explanations about the martial arts techniques, examination of the power struggles that characterized the Three Kingdoms Era reveals that there were both military officers and lower ranking soldiers who were acquainted with a vast array of martial arts. In addition, it is recorded that the majority of martial arts practitioners of that era relied on teachers and/or martial arts books for their training. Therefore, it can be surmised that there existed texts that explained martial arts techniques in detail at that time.

    Ancient texts, wall painting, and sculptures depict persons shooting arrows from horseback, as well as scenes of archery, stone throwing, and playing in a kind of martial polo game, hunting, and other such activities. In these scenes, there are individuals or groups of persons posed in strange postures and confronting other individuals or groups of persons in similar postures. These postures are precisely martial arts stances of attack and defense that are employed while facing an enemy. The empty-handed martial arts of today still use these very same postures.
     
  6. Choiyoungwoo

    Choiyoungwoo Guest

    Not new

    This is perfect thanks for posting it.

    That narrative, as good as it is, raises some questions. (by the way, it was written many years ago when the Suh/Seo family was still one MA group.) First of all the "Korean Forefathers" are not necessarily the forefathers of the people living in Korea today. So why do modern Koreans get to stake a claim on something that people who just happend to live in that same area did hundreds or thousands of years ago? That would be like modern americans trying to claim the development of something done by Caddo Indians in 200 B.C..

    wouldn't these people be considered chinese or the forefathers of chinese? Why do they get to be Koreans or Chinese? It is well documented throughmitochondrial DNA records that EVERYone during these centuries was migrating.

    My point is that I don't believe any of todays nations or cultures warrant a specific claim on this (if anyone maybe the chinese). The most acccurate description is Asian Martial Art because it occured in that general area. It is an unfortunate example of how people tend to try to "nationalize" something for the sake of a current need. Don't get me wrong... I'm glad they developed the system. The history of the skills is probably reasonably accurate, but the obvious bias for this to be "korean" makes me suspicious of the authors agenda, and I wonder what other embellisments exsist for the same reason.
     
  7. KsnMmC-Scotland

    KsnMmC-Scotland New Member

    Aimed at a pm I got

    My last post was aimed at a PM I got that was to say the least cheeky and bs. The person who sent it will understand what my post was saying. It was'nt ment as anything other than to answer him in the open.
     
  8. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    i don't think it was what you wrote but the way it was typed. totally illegible.

    :)
     
  9. kriztowfur

    kriztowfur New Member

    ksw not a style

    ksw is not a style of martial arts.
     
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Interesting read... do you have a link or reference to the source? I'd like to read more.
     
  11. Choiyoungwoo

    Choiyoungwoo Guest

    irrelevant
     
  12. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    I think it was originally written for the old and out of print Kuk Sool red book. It is slightly longer in my edition than what is presented here, but it is essentially the same. My guess is that the text here was pulled off of Choon Sik Yang's web site. He was a student of In Sun Seo years ago, and ex kuk sool master. If I can get the time and my OCR S/W works then I'll post what is in the "Red Book".
     
  13. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    here's another one you all might like to read.

    ''HO KUK MOO YEA" (The Arts used to defend the Nation) BY IN SUN SEO The superb martial arts of the ancestors of the Korean people are among the earliest developed in the world. The martial art legacy of the Korean people has been hidden for many years due to the fact that during the end of the Lee Dynasty of Koryo and the dark 36 years of annexation by the Japanese, martial arts and martial artists were either killed or forced to hide their knowledge in order to survive. The existing martial arts of that time (Tribal or Family Buddhist and Royal Court martial arts), were persecuted almost to the point of extinction. The Japanese adaptations of martial arts learned from early Korean Kingdoms: particularly the PUYO Kingdom and PAEKCHE Kingdom were reintroduced into Korea as original Japanese martial arts and forced on the Korean people.

    After the independence of Korea on August lath, 1945, Korean martial artists tried to revive Korean martial arts and bring them to the surface again, but due to the heavy influence of the Japanese, many of these arts basically imitated

    Japanese movements and names. The radiant martial arts of the Korean ancestors were not represented by these exhibitions and fortunately the Korean ancestors did not have to see it. Even in these modern times, many people believe that Korean martial arts were imported from Japan and China. This would be a laughing matter if it were not so tragic. Our association head IN HYUK SUH and others were saddened by the ignorance of the world to the rich legacy of Korean Traditional Martial Arts. In an attempt to rectify this situation, they travelled to many places throughout the Korean peninsula in order to research and re-establish the Korean martial art tradition.

    Many historical sites were visited, along with hundreds of temples and as many different masters of traditional arts as could be found. The research included close examination of murals, cave wall paintings, archaeological and historical evidence, interviews and practical training. Much time was spent looking at the shape of things, listening, gathering information and getting the ''feel'' of Korea's past traditions.

    The first step of this travel was research at locations in the area of the ancient Karak Kingdom. Examples of these martial arts are the Double Sword Dance and Staff arts. Other traditions of historical martial arts were found at Hae In Sa Temple. Tong Do Sa Temple and temples in the Pusan, Kim Hae, Masan, Jin Joo, Yang San, Chung Moo. Chang Myung, Hool San and the Kyung Nam Do area. Information gathered from these sources yielded our current Kuk Sool Won Sword Dancing Form (empty-handed), Double Short Sword Form, Double Long Sword Form and Staff Forms, including short, intermediate length and long staff. From information in the Sam Guk Yu Sa we know that the Silla kingdom's sword technique was well known even in China.

    From information garnered in the cities of Kyung Ju, Tae Gu, Yong Chun, Sun San, Sang Ju, Hoe Hong and An Dong, and from trave1 throughout Kyung Bok Do province the weapon techniques of sword, inc1uding long sword movements, reverse sword movements and empty hand forms such as Sam Bang Cho Hyung and Kyuk Pa Hyung were discovered. The ancient kingdom of Paekche martial arts, found throughout the north and south Chulla Do provinces in the cities and areas of Chun Ju, Kwang Ju, Yaw Soo, Kun San. Chohng Up Mok Po, Tae Chun Su Won and A-san, are demonstrated by our Crane Dancing Form, Rope Tying Techniques and other empty hand weapon arts.

    From the Seoul area, Chun Chun, Kang Nung Sok Cho, Chol Won, techniques popular during the Koryo Dynasty such as, 108 Torments Form, Fan and Cane Techniques, and Pressure Point attacks were found. These techniques were all invented or developed in the past twenty-four centuries, the Lee Dynasty and particularly during the reign of King Chong Joo.

    This accomplishment of research into secret materials took more than twenty years of hard work, hard times and difficulty in survival. The enormous work, while still not completed, has been organised into the present day Kuk Sool Won system which divided into 3608 techniques that are found in 270 divisions.

    Although this work was trying it was truly a labour of love to be transported back in time, through the Three Kingdom period (Silla. Paekche and Koguryo) Koryo and the Lee Dynasty. Looking at the murals and the tile designs one could see the empty hand fighting motions, sword, spear, and staff forms, as well as defence and attack postures so lively that the similarities to today’s current Kuk Sool Won movements and postures is obvious.

    Through all these trying times Teacher In Hyuk Suh tried to spread the traditional martial arts to his fellow countrymen. Some especially able and talented disciples were sent to Pusan, Seoul, Kuang Ju, Tae Chun Tae Gu, Chun Joo Chun Chun Ma San, Mok Po, Yaw Su, Shoon Chun, Chin Ju, Kun San, and elsewhere. These masters of Kuk Sool were dispatched throughout the country and after twenty years. hundreds of branch schools were established with over a million members passing through the doors of Kuk Sool schools and some fifty thousand Black Belts.

    The reputation of Korean historical Martial Arts (Kuk Sool Won) is spreading throughout Korea and in many places of the world. In 1972 Kuk Sool was listed in the World Physical Education Encyclopaedia. Around the world, Kuk Sool has been shown in thousands of demonstrations for many years, in gymnasiums, festivals, competitions (national and local), schools, television and newspapers. Because of these extensive works people everywhere recognise the existence of Kuk Sool and its strength. Of special importance, Kuk Sool was recognised by the government and in early 1977; the Korean Cultural Department produced the film ''Ho Kuk Moo Yea'' (Historical Martial Arts for National Defence) which featured forty Kuk Sool Masters in the film. This film was shown overseas to promote Korean Culture and understanding and to educate other countries to the Traditional Martial Arts of Korea. This film greatly uplifted the historical importance of Korean martial Arts. Also in January 1978, of all the martial art groups in Korea, Kuk Sool Won was once again chosen to represent Korean Traditional Martial Arts at a memorial ceremony celebrating 75 years of Korean immigration in Hawaii.

    This was a landmark event for the Kuk Sool ambassadors, Chiefmaster In Sun Seo and eight others. They were dispatched to foreign countries and to their native country fourteen times to demonstrate and show the excellence of Kuk Sool. There is much pride within Kuk Sool associated with these events.

    The reason Kuk Sool Won is so well recognised is not just because the technique is superb, but because all the members and officers in the association work from one mind and one body. Korea's saying, "White Clothing, Pure Country'' is the same as our association logo. We value etiquette and manners as of utmost importance. It is important to know many techniques, but we value etiquette equally. True martial artists do not desire to hurt people, but strive to serve their fellow countrymen and strengthen society. We strive to be a group associated and known for national prestige and high ideals.

    The current Kuk Sool Won techniques are compiled into levels of instruction consisting of beginner, intermediate, advanced and black belt levels. The techniques include arts and skills such as fist arts, leg arts, gathering power for defence, pressure points, escorting techniques for capture, rope tying techniques, staff arts (short. intermediate. long), sword arts (straight, reverse. double, long and short swords), palm striking (open palm. reverse palm, spinning palm, side palm) fan and cane, techniques, circular blocking techniques Internal power techniques, head-butting techniques, lower abdominal breathing techniques (internal and external), under black belt empty hand forms, above black belt empty hand forms and weapons forms.

    Many believe Kuk Sool to be the most scientifically developed and organised martial arts to be found anywhere in the world. These techniques and arts left to us by the Korean ancestors, from the scholar's martial arts of pressure points, joint-locking, fan and cane to the warrior's martial arts of sword, staff and spear will continue to be researched and exposed.
     
  14. ImaJayhawk

    ImaJayhawk Valued Member

    This link includes part 2.

    http://www.usadojo.com/martial-arts-articles/article-history-korean-martial-arts.htm

    and an alternate ending from the KIDOhae site:

    Korea was annexed by Japan in 1910. Every aspect of the Martial Arts in Korea underwent an
    extremely serious crisis and the entire Martial Arts tradition began to disappear. It was indeed the
    darkest hour in the long history of Korean military arts.

    During the 36 years of the Japanese occupation of Korea, practically the life span of a whole
    generation lost its freedom and identity. The Japanese authorities tried to completely eliminate
    Korean thought, Korean cultural arts, and the very foundation of Korean traditional Martial Arts,
    which had been preserved in Korea for thousands of years. Ironically, it was the Japanese who had,
    in the past, brought Korean traditional Martial Arts into their own nation and then modified those
    arts to suit the Japanese culture. Then in this century, the Japanese tried to assert that Korean
    Martial Arts originated in Japan. In fact, today's Karate, Kendo, and Aikido were probably
    influenced by the traditional Korean Martial Art tradition.

    The classification of different types of Martial Arts as various kinds of "Do" is a Japanese way of
    thinking. In Korea, on the other hand, the Martial Arts have been recognized traditionally as being
    either "Ki" ("skill"), "Sool"("art, method"), or "Kiyae" ("mechanical art"). That is to say, Koreans
    looked upon Martial Arts as either a means of fighting or as method of developing the mind and
    body.

    Examination of the ancient Korean historical records reveal that such terms as "moo-do",
    "koong-do", or "gum-do" were not so much as once used. It was only after the middle of the
    Japanese colonial rule in Korea that the term "do" first appeared in Korean records. In Korea,
    "mu-yae" or "moo-sool" were traditionally used instead of "moo-do". In the same way, "koong-sa"
    (bow shooting), or "koong-sool" (bow technique) were used by Koreans instead of "koong-do". In
    addition, "yoo-sool" was used in Korea, not "yoo-do".
    After the Korean liberation from Japan (August 15, 1945), Korean Martial Arts (i.e. "moo-yae" or
    "moo-sool") spread rapidly throughout the country. Classical Korean Martial Art techniques, which
    had been hidden, one by one surfaced and became publicly known. The reason for this rapid public
    disclosure of secret arts stems from the rivalry that developed between each proponent of some
    individual Martial Art form. That is, individual masters of their own particular Martial Art techniques tried to show theirs to be the "superior" Korean Martial Art.

    However, the majority of these Martial Art skills to surface at this time were not organized
    systematically and were nothing more than individual techniques. Hence, after a brief flurry of
    activity, many of these arts ended up fading out of sight again.

    Although these classical Korean Martial Arts were highly-developed, I suspect the reason for their
    disappearance were either because of the difficulty of adapting them practically to the needs of the
    modern society, or because they weren't something which could be made into sports.

    1985. 9. 25
    Written by
    In Sun Seo (Official 10th Dan)
    Chairman/President
    Korea KIDO Association
    World KIDO Federation
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2006
  15. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    cheers for that ImaJayhawk, very intresting.
     
  16. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Thank you!!!!!! Good stuff to read. There are some things that I don't really agree with and think may be a bit of nationalistic whitewashing of Japanese influence on Korean arts. Then again, this is pretty typical for the 1980's in Korea... so from a historical perspective of the source's age, I am not suprised.

    Regardless, I love GM In Sun Seo and what he does. Sometime in 2006 (early), he has a new Hanminjok book coming out which is supposed to have quite a bit of history in it. I am curious how much different it will be and what it will consist of. I have ordered a copy (and actually my picture will be in it! :D ) so I'll revisit this topic after I read it and digest it!
     
  17. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    I've heard about this book and am curious about its content, given the author.

    How did you order a copy? I wouldn't mind putting in an order myself.
     
  18. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    same here
     
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    My instructor, myself, and a couple of our blackbelts are also Hanminjok Hapkido black belts. We received a letter from Hanminjok Hapkido Association asking if we wanted to purchase a book and to supply photos of all HMJ HKD black belts for the book. I think it was $100. I have no idea how you would go about ordering more. If you contact the Hanminjok Hapkido Association at webmaster@hmjhapkido.or.kr you may have some success. Sorry not to be more helpful.
     
  20. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    Ok, I have sent them an email asking how one can go about (pre)ordering the book.

    If I hear anything (useful) back, I'll post it here for those interested.

    Thank you, Thomas.
     

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