KSW Roots

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by AirNick, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. AirNick

    AirNick Valued Member

    Can someone please tell me why this forum never seems to go more than one or two months without someone coming on here and telling us how 'flawed' our art is and how 'true' theirs is?

    You don't see any of us going on to other forums saying 'our art is better than yours'. We are here and we like it, deal with it.

    Also, has it ever occured to you that we actually know this stuff already?
  2. Unknown Entity

    Unknown Entity New Member

    Amen to that brother!
  3. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    couldn't agree more.

    all i need to know about the roots of ksw is covered in textbook 1. i don't need some jumped up karate practioner to tell me that all korean styles originated in japan so therefore ksw and it's history is flawed.

    if that is the case then we may aswell all drive around in mercedes benz' as they are acclaimed to have produced the first motor car.

  4. baubin2

    baubin2 New Member

    But I can't afford a Mercedez-Benz! Whaddo I do? Whaddo I DO?!?!

  5. Unknown Entity

    Unknown Entity New Member

    Guess you better buy a flawed Aston Martin or Jaguar. :eek:
  6. AirNick

    AirNick Valued Member

    And another thing:

    Kuk Sool is not just a load of hapkido techniques with a questionable past. In shotokan and other forms of karate, you don't get to use all the vast array of weaponary we have, you don't get our forms (which I think are some of the most beautiful forms in the martial arts as a whole), you don't get all our acrobatic jumping kicks etc etc

    This is why we choose to study Kuk Sool and not shotokan, because we like all this stuff!

    Sorry, rant over
  7. DL.Demolition

    DL.Demolition New Member

    In my opinion KSW doesn't have a style. We do not have the rigidity of some martial arts we adapt our style to overcome what stands before us. We have certain principles but those in themselves have flexability.

  8. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Passes AirNick his dummy back :D
    What happened, who's picking on my mate???? Something must have gone off to rattle his cage this bad. I'm the outspoken one
    Put em up........put em up !!!!!!!! :woo:
  9. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    LOL you sound like scrappy doo! :D
  10. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Bugger secret identity destroyed. Dave you said you wouldn't tell anyone. I want my uncle Scooby. :cry:
  11. Grippereeno

    Grippereeno New Member

    Seems to me that anyone that comments on KSW roots forgets that the present day organised system is less than 50 years old... Hundreds perhaps thousands of years ago any wrangleing (sp) over grandmastership/unhappiness/disgruntlement with a particular system/art including most of what other people view as ancient true arts where often settled with fights to the death. Now a days this cant be the case because of the legal implications. I suppose what the point im tryin to make is that a lot of martial arts went what ares is going through now hundreds of years ago.. IMO KSW has some excellent martial artisits who show unparraleled dedication to what they believe to be an effective art however as an association where just finding are feet really..

    A bit of a rant too on my part but im a bit sick of hearin about the rights and wrongs off split off's and questionable history....
  12. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    It's like with religion... people choose what they choose because they believe it best and right, and as a result all others are inferior, lesser, wrong, and those on those paths are just doomed to failure. People that follow "the others" are following lies, untruths, or other evils and therefore must be saved and have their eyes opened to the truth. And those following "the right path" believe its the responsibility to do just that.


    I will agree that you find all sorts throughout the martial arts world. Everyone wants to present themselves in a particular way, and often there's truth, there's semi-truth, and there's fiction... and unfortunately with so much of it floating around in different amounts and mixtures and so much that's difficult or impossible to confirm, people just grow skeptical. As well, in time many people pick what they choose to believe, and perpetuate that as Gospel Truth even if it itself might be full of the very half-truths they're intending to dispel. It's tough to sort the wheat from the chaff. I don't think anyone is out to follow lies... we're all seeking Truth in our own way.

    Even Kuk Sool Won has issues in its history. I know what's written in Textbook 1. I've read interviews, spoken with and/or read things from "old school" KSW Masters. Read books, poked around. There's a lot of uncertainty, there's a lot of questions, and I guess only In Hyuk Suh really knows The Truth here. But does it really matter? Did we choose this art because of the history? Is history really that high a requisite for choosing an art to study? I guess for those that hold history in such high regard, perhaps it is.

    But as I've seen it, most people choose their art because it works for them. The kicking, the punching, the way they fight, the throwing, the locking, the sparring, the exercise and conditioning, the weapons, the "cool factor", the fact they want to be a high flyer and work in movies or the fact it makes for good sport and they want to be in the Olympics or the next PRIDE Bushido champion. Whatever your reason(s). Just because you can trace your lineage back some 10 bazillion years to the first amoeba that formed, or you can't trace it back further than your immediate teacher... does it really matter? If it's effective, it's effective. If it's fun and what you want and is fulfilling whatever it is that you're seeking, isn't that all that matters?

    I chose to study Kuk Sool Won because of what the art (system) itself offers. I didn't do something like karate or taekwondo because I wanted locks and grappling. I didn't do something like bjj because I wanted striking. I didn't do Hapkido because I like forms, and I really like the KSW forms (beautiful, especially higher level forms). I like the weapons curriculum of KSW. I even like the fact it's a Korean art, since my Mom is Korean (tho I was born and raised in white-bread America, Mom immigrated to the US in her 20's) and there's some cultural aspects in the art for me. Do I really care about the history? It's interesting, sure. But as far as the martial art, no, not really. Does the history somehow make my punch or my hip throw better or worse? Does 5000+ years of history make an attacker back off, or the fact I can trace lineage perfectly back through 150 generations keep my family safe?

    Taking a specific example, Yong Sool Choi is surrounded in controversy and unknowns as to where he received his skills that ultimately became the art of Hapkido. Why does it matter so much where and how he received his skills? Isn't the bottom line the fact he had skills, that he was effective with them, and the fact he chose to share and evolve that knowledge?

    There will always be those interested in history, and that's fine. I certainly find historical studies interesting. But I'm here to study martial arts. When I go to the dojang, I'm not going there to learn history. I'm going there to learn how to fight (martial, right?), to exercise, and to have fun.
  13. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member


    good post.

  14. Choiyoungwoo

    Choiyoungwoo Guest

    The only relevance about MA history is that any uncovered discrepancies are a reflection of the persons claiming this or that. which uncovers the character of that person. Many want to discredit KSN and other founders in an effort to re enforce what they want to believe.. We can't help any embellishment he may have made to shore up ksw history that help them in this pursuit . But if it is so then a character debate is sure to follow. and no one wants that..
  15. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    That's a very good point.
  16. KSW_KJN

    KSW_KJN Valued Member

    LOL! Wow AirNick, someone kick your puppy? :) Good points all around.
  17. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    Hapkido isn't Shotokan karate, either. It's Daito-Ryu, some Kung Fu, and only a little Shotokan. There may even possibly be some Taek-Gyun in there somewhere, although, that's probably questionable. But seriously, Hapkido is drastically different from shotokan karate, with the exception of a few things, like the punches and similarities in some of the stances. Those few similarities are present in KSW, too. We do tend to use much narrower long stances than karate, though.

    Supposedly there's a big praying mantis kung fu influence on KSW. I've heard people say that it's likely that Kuk Sa Nim learned some kind of praying mantis Kung Fu from his grandfather, since Chinese martial arts had a big impact on Korea and were often passed down as family styles through Korean lines.

    BTW, Hapkido does contain a lot of weapon stuff. Some of the other Kuk Sool weaponry probably came from the Muye Dobo Tongi (I know that at least one thing did - the Jang Bong form I learned at Daenport), and probably anything else came from Kung Fu.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2006
  18. Choiyoungwoo

    Choiyoungwoo Guest

    Kuk sa nim is a korean kung fu (ship pahl gye) master. That plus the probable common hapkido origins, and other miscellaneous stuff. gives you kuk sool. and answers a lot of questions that usually go unanswered.
  19. KSWMark

    KSWMark New Member

    Well i think the more influence from other arts the better, although i would still like KSW to remain relatively orginal i also welcome other tried and tested ways of training, techniques etc. because it makes KSW all the more complete.
  20. Choiyoungwoo

    Choiyoungwoo Guest

    While I don't really disagree with your thoughts on outside influence being a plus, I don't think there is a meaning to the word "Original". Kuk Sool has always proported to be a amalgam of skills. What's funny is that WKSA black Belts are forbidden to cross train w/ other styles. Mixing and matching is not only discouraged,, it's against the rules of WKSA. It seems that the desired influence you speak of has already happend to the extent that it will within wksa 40 or 50 years ago when ksw was formed. I haven't noticed any, officially, however there seems to be people leaning that direction often.

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