i agree with lots of this, on the resposibility front but i would argue you get paid for everything you do in your list there. It may not be a capital gain but its a spiritual or self fulfilment gain. And one of being usefull and bringing happiness to others or supporting them. And the religious groups, brings up another question is Kuk Sool run like a sect ??????? you will believe this, you must not question, you will not talk to anybody else or see if their ideas fit your body type better. If you do you will be chucked out of the organisation even though you have nothing against its teachings and have a great family that you have built over your years as a member????? Personally i would have to say how can you say one thing is right if you have never trained in anything else. Surely a black belt in Kuk Sool and another art that chooses to teach and train in Kuk Sool is a better advert for the art than one who has never done anything but Kuk Sool???? After all they have a choice as to which art they teach and train in and choose Kuk Sool. Think its a stupid "law" or suggestion thats been put on a document, and just holds the organisation up for more ridicule because it just stinks of fear to me.
a lot of what you say, monk is only relavent if you feel the need to cross train (which i have no problem with) but there are quite a few of us, who are neither ingnorant or blind, and can see what is available, all the benifits and dissadvantages, yet still don't see the need to cross train. you don't have to try something to know it is not for you, a well informed individual can make up there own mind without the need to try something first. so as for it being a "stupid law" and "stinking of fear" i would have to dissagree, but by now you should have guessed that my view on the need to cross train is the opposite to yours. and we are both entitiled to our opinions. out of curiosity, who has a problem with anything else that was posted in the b/belt rules excluding the whole cross train thing.
Exactly my point. I get a real kick out of helping out with classes, especially the juniors... they, and some of the instructors, make me laugh. I don't know if you were on or read enough about what last fall was like for me, but it was really bad. Almost as bad as the spring that brought me back to MA in the first place. Laughter is healing. Helping out with tournament is fun, too. Gives a different perspective, and an opportunity to get to know other people. I can imagine that planning it would have it's rough spots, but that is true for planning *any* big event (professional organization banquet, SF convention, engineering event for students, it's the same process). There's some aspects of it. Most of the way I'm taught is not "you will believe this", it's "here's the philosophy behind it, make your own decision". There's a story about the Buddha, that he asked his students not to take his teachings for "gospel", but only to accept them after they have been tried and tested the way you would test if gold was real. That's the philosophy I've seen. More "try it our way, and see if this is better for you." And from what I've seen, there is questioning and there is questioning. We've had a lot of respectful discussions on here, asking why this and why that, and those don't seem to be a problem. A problem only seemed to come up when the same person never seemed to have anything good to say about Kuk Sool, AND their questioning was phrased in ways that sounded accusational, disrespectful, and downright rude.
True opinions are what make the world go round. Be interesting watching you sparring without a jab, cross, hook, or uppercut in the tourny just checked my kuk sool books those techniques, thrown from a high guard are nowhere in there. So therefore must be added by others. Now if I have the chance to learn how to perform these techniques from someone who has only ever studied Kuk Sool or a local Golden gloves boxing , champion which should i choose???? Why should i be condemned for it thats what that document suggests i should be. So I guess that means no one is interested in my pad combinations to teach you to double hip???? Hang on nope thats not in Kuk Sool so silly question. Just one point about your statement above how do you become "well informed" if you don't watch, observe, and then try to see if it fits your body type???? Well informed opinion has to be based on some form of research and/or experience, but then thats just my opinion and we're both entitled to our own. I don't think I ever suggested anyone was stupid, ignorrant, or blind for not cross training. I think however if you are given the opportunity to learn something from someone who is offering it to you and you say no i'm not cross training that might make people a little silly. Afterall is that not why you go to gymnastics twice a week so that it translates over to your Kuk Sool???
Ember, Hope nothing has come across as disrespectful by me on this thread?? I never meant it too,( but i have better days than others) just find it very shocking that an organisation that I have been a member of for many years could go hey Monk we don't want you in it any more cos you went and trained in other arts and with other people. Would they repay my testing fees upto the belt level that they have revoked???? Nope i don't think so.
Nope, not you. I'm referring to someone else who was asked to leave Kuk Sool based in part on what they said here. I think it happened shortly before much of the "second wave" of posters joined. A lot of the posts around that incident were removed from the board. It's wierd being "old guard" to people who way outrank me
i don't mean to say that cross training is wrong for you, or that you wont benifit from it, but i will say that it is wrong for me and that i am not interested in doing it. as for kuk sa nim prohibiting it, well what he dosen't know will do no-one any harm. "What do you call Nick and Max when you're not in class ?????" RULE 12 i call nick, nick and max boss unless you are a kwan ja nim, i will call you by your name. like i have said before i see those rules as more of a guidline.
I've told Brian that home is a "no Ma'aming" zone, it just didn't sit right at first. With my DBN friends it varies, we use "Ma'am" and "Sir" a lot, but mostly use rank to refer to people not present. But if I'm talking with KSN at the office, I'll usually call him "Sir" or "Kyo Sa Nim". But then, he outranks me in the office too. What's wierd/cool is, his whole team uses "sir" and "ma'am" on a regular basis. I work with those guys a lot, and they seem to be the only group that does that consistently in this corner of our company.
Hehe wise choice on the max front One thing though...do you still do ki cho hyung the same way as when you started. No of course you don't. Why not? Because someone showed you how to do it differently and you adapted it because it made your movement better and more efficient. Now if people inside your art know more about how your body might work better the why wouldn't someone else or something else?? Until you tried it, you didn't know. If you had stood there and gone nope i'll keep doing it my way cos i know best then you would have still been there. Which you aren't. Everyone thinks they know there body. I am always getting taught how my body works better and i'm always teaching a big man how his does. Its all about being willing to listen. Its not dependant on years in. Oh and i would say someone that holds a golden gloves championship with 15 years of experience in boxing is gonna know a whole lot more about mobile punching than any master you care to mention in Kuk Sool. His sword stinks though Oh and double hipping is relevant to any martial art you do. But you'd have to learn something else to be taught it directly or learn it over 15 years in kuk sool and maybe not even know what you'd got. Yeah i know they are guidelines, but they are written as rules. I think most of them should be rules too. However some are just silly.
no-one knows my body better than i do, they might know how to improve my technique, and subsequently my skills which is a seperate thing. there are lots of more skilled and more knowledgeable people out there training in martial arts than me, but with my knowledge and experiance, as well as a heap of research (i am a massive martial arts fan, i genuanly love and regularly go and see all styles martial arts) i have come to the conclusion that cross training will not benifitt MY studying and understanding of kuk sool. its a personal choice and one i'm quite happy with. and on the boxing note, your right a golden gloves champ will know more about boxing than a korean martial arts master, but i don't want to lean western boxing, just kuk sool. and i would agree that the rules need to be updated to fit in with the more modern approach to ma training
Wait a minute!!!!?!?!? you mean to tell me that you know of some one who was actually asked to leave KSW beacuse of a post on a chat room?? And then the "controversial" posts were removed???? You have got to be kidding??
first -- WKSA does resemble a cult in many ways........second - I have black belts in multiple systems and I guess I fit the description above to some extent. and I tend to be MUCH more critical than most, and very blantant about it. but not out of disrespect of any individual, but because of my deeply held conviction that I train in what could be the best overall system. But, like religion, & science, if it can't stand up to question, particularly at the leadership level, then. ?????????????????? maybe it needs a serious overhaul.
Speaking of which, this http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/cults.htm was given to me by someone who quit Kuk Sool before I did, while I was still in it. It's not all relevant, but if you read the whole thing, some parts certainly are.
She's talking about me, actually. But no, the controversial posts weren't removed--I started a thread here mentioning what happened. A little later, one of our blackbelts posted an "apology" for my behaviour on the forum, which offended a lot of people and the thread he started was removed. A few hours later, the thread I had started about getting kicked out was removed. The actual post(s) that they were upset about are still here. I was actually going to leave in 3 weeks anyway, but I had planned on staying in until the end of the semester. I had already been taking MMA. There were two posts from another thread that I had previously asked the mods to remove at someone's request, but for reasons unrelated to what happened.
on that site, search for and read "Why do we say cults" the site has this link: http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studycult/study_whatisdescult.htm The only warning sign that I saw was this exclusivity clause... For what other reasons are you making that claim Cho?
OK not wanting to fall out here so we'll agree to disagree. The reason i put the bit about the boxing was actually cos you said in another post that they wouldn't necessarily know more about a subject they were a champion in than someone who had been shown how to perform the punches and never actually boxed. If you were given the choice to learn something from the grandmaster direct or someone else I know you'd choose the direct link, so to say no i won't learn something from someone who knows something better than anyone else, that i do actually use just seems strange. I know i won't change your mind on cross training and never intended too. You have your views about what is important to learn and teach, I have mine. Which again is what makes it so much fun having the scope within one martial art to do so.
just read the last 2 posts and i have some comments on this area of cross training... Matt you say you will not cross train and will stick to just kuk sool.... Great!!! but do you do areas of training not found on a kuk sool testing sheet at your school.... im sure you do, because i do... for example i do focus mits, that is not a testing requirement is it!! but i would never say this is not beneficial to there training in ksw at all infact its the opposite... it helps enormously with sparring, fitness co-ordination and hand striking!! yet it is not a testing requirement nor is it found in the text books. Cross training happens, you cannot stop it at all we are under contstant influences from many styles and aspects in our lives (films,pics,stories,experiences)
your right gi ma ja sa, you can not escape all the influances presented to you in films, tv and the culture of the country you live in, but what i mean is that i will not go outside of kuk sool people to actualy learn something in a student/teacher role. that is what i term as cross training. also training and testing are two differant things, any training drill thought up by anyone using skill developed within kuk sool, is what we should be doing in our jobs as instructors. the text books are there to help learn the sylibus, and the testing sheets are there to aid memory for testers. neither of which cover the actual training of students. thats my job. as i have previously stated i have no problem with anyone cross training if they see a benefit to themselves (a few of my students do just that), me personaly, i think i have to much to learn just in kuk sool, and would much rather spend my time consetrating on learning the style and skills of kuk sool and not trying to learn 2 or 3 differant martial arts.
i'm with you on this one matt. i'm never going to be a brilliant ma'ist but i'd rather be as good as i can be in kuk sool by devoting all my training time to one art instead of taking time out to train in another style. i don't doubt that i could learn more, or a different way of doing something if i started a different ma but i want to learn and train in kuk sool, nothing else.
