KSW Black Belt Licence Agreement

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Unknown Entity, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. Buckeye Blue

    Buckeye Blue Valued Member

    Even if there is nothing written there can still be an agreement. If WKSA says that you can't earn a black belt if you cross train, and you agree and accept the black belt, then there is an agreement. Contracts can be verbal.

    But what it comes down to is the fact that rules are rules. WKSA can't stop you from training in another martial art, but they can revoke your right to train under WKSA.
     
  2. Buckeye Blue

    Buckeye Blue Valued Member

    I am sure that there are several ways this is permissable. Off the top of my head, I would say rejecting the core beliefs of the school is a pretty good reason the teacher's loss of a job. Yes, the rejection was based on religious belief, but that doesn't change the fact that the mission of the school was to "educate children based upon the beliefs of our organization." If the teacher rejects the mission of the school, then they aren't technically qualified.

    I am guessing that is what the school argued and what the court accepted. Remember that the First Amendment also grants freedom of religion.
     
  3. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    I'm not quite sure about that. Reasons:

    From what I understood in this same thread some time ago, the language of the license what full of conditionals. Things like "a KSW black belt _should_not_ attain black belt in other MAs..."

    This would not exclude attaining a _higher_ belt.

    What about non-MAs? Can I do western archery? Kajukenbo [which calls itself a Seld Defence system]? If it's a fear of technique stealing, then what about old asian schools (I'm thinking on Japanese Koryu, with set-in-stone syllabus)?

    What about USMC MA program? Sould they expel a Marine Major when he gets his?

    Now, if rules are not universally applied, they're no longer rules. Maybe not even guidelines. This, not taking into account that it's a rule that is not explained _before_ joining.

    Which, after all, is moot. If you're expelled, would you _enjoy_ coming back?
     
  4. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Well, and I do not know if there was a lawsuit. I know the students had a "walkout" in protest, somewhere one of my brothers wrote up about it, but it didn't do any good.
     
  5. Buckeye Blue

    Buckeye Blue Valued Member

    I am not sure what the language is, but however its phrased the issue is the restriction is by agreement of the participants, even if you aren't told until you earn the belt.

    From what I'm reading, the rule is loosely enforced. That doesn't mean that its not a rule, it means that the enforcement is lousy/unfair. But it also reflects a form of independence afforded individual schools.

    Finally, you raise a point about where you draw the line of what is a martial art for purposes of the rule. This would be a question for someone of authority in KSW.
     
  6. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    Ok. But if a rule is unfair, not consistently enforced, can you not challenge its application in court? I believe it would be the case in Spain.

    As said before, it matters not: what kind of training would I receive if I won a trial and they _had_ to re-admit me?
     
  7. Bahng Uh Ki

    Bahng Uh Ki Valued Member

    Who would you be suing? The association? And who would you be taking lessons from? A school owner.

    Seriously, I think you would receive the same level of instruction you had been receiving before the suit: appropriate to your rank and abilities.
     
  8. Choiyoungwoo

    Choiyoungwoo Guest

    Well all of you make valid points.
    - bb's are held to a rule that they are not aware of, as a result what is the penality and who faces the penalty? is it the same for everyone?
    - Does this mean you can't have friends in tkd and you can't work out together ?
    - if that is a rule that bb's are held to , what other rules are they held to that we don't know about?
    - If these QAQC rules are so valueable and functional, then why are they not public ? Putting them on the WKSA website would eliminate a lot of ambiguity, wouldn't it? what's the big secret?
    - I believe KSW to be the best and most complete single MA system out there. And I am sure the rank and file, as well as the "powers that be" in WKSA agree, what I don't understand is why they are unwilling to let people figure that out on thier own. It seems a little isolationistic to me. If it is such a big deal for no one outside wksa to learn ksw, then why is no one worried about the fact that In Sun Seo, He Young Kim CS Yang, S T Yang and countless other HKDish instructors are teaching what is essentially ksw to anyone who will write them a check? Its clear that x training can't be controlled.
     
  9. Buckeye Blue

    Buckeye Blue Valued Member

    In this country you can sue for anything, you won't necessarily win however. Under common law you wouldn't have much of a case. If a party has certain contractual rights, they can choose to enforce or ignore those rights.
     
  10. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    It'd _probably_ depend how the judiciary system understood KSWA [Spain]. If it's a corporation, then they probably can; if it were understood that it's a sports association, then it probably couldn't. Such understanding would be independent from WKSA-Spain statutes (although probably affected by them).

    Take my opinion with some salt: I like digging some judiciary news, but I have no special understanding (no degrees, no studies).
     

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