Krav Maga

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by STASH, Sep 30, 2002.

  1. Ska-theory

    Ska-theory New Member

    From what i've picked up from KM, its principle reason for existence-

    like for example with Wing Chun is direct and simple blocking/striking without need for strength, or Judo for taking people down without hurting them, or Tai Chi for using the internal energies, and so forth-

    is death, maiming, mutilation and more death. I've sat down and read a chapter or two about the moves and they aren't very nice, and i was thinking to myself, I'm sure other martial arts have less harsh ways of dealing with having your leg seized mid-kick*.


    *the KM method being to hop towards your enemy and conviscate his eyeballs.
     
  2. manofleisure

    manofleisure Valued Member

    Silat Mubai No Bueno.....

    I have a friend who made a purchase from these guys and they B.S. him and took his money in a shady way,no customer support but an email saying," what do you want", and then no response after the fact.

    Also some of there instructors in the U.S. are those that don't seem to stick with the other sytems they have trained in for whatever reason. (hint hint)

    They are also selling product certification courses in other folks designed goods (travel wrench)

    These guys give no respect to the arts of arnis or silat,and the fact that theyfoster the whole combative terrorist theme is that of gimmick more the concern for you folks going into deep concern about the war in Iraq.This alone should tell you all you need to know about these knock off martial artist.

    Stay away from these clowns and learn the arts of arnis and silat from the dedicated teachers and students of these systems like it was always done before and it is for the most part,still done today.
     
  3. reel deel

    reel deel New Member

    Well well, A lets slag Krav Maga posting, This is a suprise (That's sarcasm by the way)
    I've been practising Krav Maga quite awhile now and having already tried many traditional arts (I'm a 5th dan in 3 different styles of Kenpo) I have found Krav Maga to not only be the best for me, I found that the lack of ritual, putting instructors on pedestals and the wearing of silly pajamas quite refreshing.
    I am sure there are people who use the Krav Maga name to rip people off, in fact I've no doubt about it, but then there are the same sort of cowboys who claim to be experts in every single martial art on the face of the earth, claiming to know secret techniques and to fear no man you cannot blame a single style for the possibly illegal activities of a few.
    Krav Maga isn't nice, it doesn't look pretty but then neither does a real fight! Sadly most traditional martial artists have never been in a real fight but claim they can destroy anyone blah! Blah! Blah.
    Krav Maga is a modern style tried and tested on the streets of Israel in the most turbulent period of its short history, the majority of today's traditional arts cannot claim to be effective in the modern world as they were designed to combat people who wore armour carried swords and followed strong ethical honour codes, there is no honour on the streets of the modern era.
    Kapap Lotar is the forerunner of Krav Maga and is more involved with grappling locks nerve point attacks, it was originally taught to the Palmach (Israeli Special forces during WW2, by the Long range desert group or as it is known now the SAS, the CQC techniques were those taught by Captain William Ewart Fairbairn (Royal Marines) to the British commandos, the SOE and the OSS, the original intention was to teach these skills to 1000 Israeli commandos, however they in turn taught the art secretly to 2000 more enabling them to field 3000 trained commandos in all. fairbairn's originally designed the program so that it could be taught to soldiers in six weeks. so that soldeir could be quickly trained and in the field in a short time. Every Civillian in Israel is a soldier for their country, that is why the civilian version of Krav Maga was designed by Imi Lichtenfield to be quicker and easier to learn without loosing any of its devastating techniques, I always had my doubts about my orignal art of Kenpo to many usless flowery techniques
    There is knife fighting in Krav Maga (realistic knife fighting one cut one death, not the pointless thousand cuts of other systems, we have stick fighting simple and direct.)
    Krav Maga does not rest upon it laurels neither, they are constantly refining and upgrading techniques getting the feed back they need from the practitioners that are on the front line, special agents,special forces soldiers law enforcement officers bodyguards and lowly door men like myself, and they listen. They do not say this is how its always been done and how it will always be done because thats the way it was written in the ancient scrolls. How many can claim that about there art.
    And as for politics (breathes a sigh of relief) there is none no interference no one telling you what to do etc.
    Since starting Krav Maga I've become close freinds with my instructor, who values my input, he has never even charged me for a lesson because he says my input is invaluable and my Krav Maga membership was half price.
    Then there is the mature supportive atmosphere of the entire class.
    To the guy who's freind got ripped off by unscrupulous people, whoever it was they were not connected to Krav Maga international as they claim.
    Krav Maga by David Khan is an excellent beginners book but the bible for Krav Maga is "How to defend yourself against armed attack" by Imi Lichtenfield ans Eyal Yanilov.
    Krav Maga is viscious yes, but it is only ever used as a last resort, when all else has failed.
     
  4. reel deel

    reel deel New Member

    this is a technique of Krav Maga disarming a handgrenade from a potential terrorist but not in the way you describe, this has been tested in the field by the Palmach and it would not be included in the syllabus if it did not work.
    a grenade is only dangerous when the pin is released the idea is to hold the grenade in the attackers hand so he cannot deploy it, the actual technique is taken from akido and jiu jitsu.
     
  5. pj_goober

    pj_goober Valued Member

    I recently bought a couple of books on Krav Maga out of general martial arts interest, and i was rather disappointed, i was expecting some interesting and practical techniques. The system to me (i admit only through reading a couple of books) seems very heavily reliant on groin strikes (which are overratted generally IMO) and other "nasties" as well as some dubious tactics on dealing with multiple attackers..

    However the fact that i was disappointed that the techniques were very basic, probably means its effective - after all we all know that flashy complicated techniques are unreliable.

    I expect that KM is highly effective as a street art - if thats what you want from your training, then go for it. If like me you want to learn an art, and all that entails (rather than street fighting) then its probably not the style for you.
     
  6. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Umm, reel deel, there weren't any Israeli Special Forces during WWII. There wasn't an Israel yet.
     
  7. Storms of War

    Storms of War Valued Member

  8. pj_goober

    pj_goober Valued Member

    ok, now i'm less convinced..that video just looked like bad ju-jitsu with some gun defences thrown in. (oh and lots of striking)
     
  9. Storms of War

    Storms of War Valued Member

    Obviously they can't go full force in demo's. If they went all out, they'd walk away blind and incapable of having children. I can't argue with you that it didn't look too great. It looked well rehearsed. It wasn't natural looking at all. If you get past that and can accept that they weren't going all out, it's not too bad.
     
  10. pj_goober

    pj_goober Valued Member

    oh, i don't doubt that KM is effective. its pretty well proven in the field as it were...

    just that demo was a bit rubbish..
     
  11. reel deel

    reel deel New Member

    The Palmach was a commando group trained by the British, they trained a thousand Jewish (Soon to be Israeli) commandos, these thousand men in turn trained another two thousand men, so by the Time Israel declared independance they had Three thousand Palmach in the field, the Palmach is still the name of Israel's elite commando unit and I believe that all of those born into the Jewish faith have to serve in the israeli army, this would make these jews,Israelis, If you ask a follower of this faith how long there has been an Israel he will probably tell you something like 'as long as God has decreed it'
     
  12. reel deel

    reel deel New Member

    Hi PJ
    We have found that based on natural body movement when the jaw is struck hard with a palm heel strike, the entire body arches thus presenting the groin as a viable and now hard to defend target, but this will work ONLY id the proprer strike is initated.
    I have used this technique in the street in my own defence and can swear to it's effectiveness.
    As you have quite rightly stated, Krav Maga is a highly effective street defence, it is not however an art.
    I would like to add that as I have stated before Krav Maga is always updating and refining it's techniques, so some defences seen in the books may have already have changed.
    We have also discovered that there are cultural factors that can be added in too for instance my instructor told me that on a seminar trip to Poland, our Polish colleagues were amazed at the British techniques of head butting and biting (I don't mean that these techniques actually were invented in Britain, I'm just saying that these tecniques were in the British version of Krav Maga but not the Polish) as they had never seen these before, when my instructor went back the following year the Polish Krav Maga practioners were head butting and biting left right and centre, we are also encouraged to study other arts and we also have regular guest instructors, (From silat, kali,JKD,BJJ, and Boxing thus far, we learn these things and apply them to our Krav Maga by breaking them down and examining them closely, so Birmigham Krav, might be slightly different to Essex or Brighton or Dublin. I also study JKD which compliments Krav Maga well and the applications and the science behind JKD is useful for examing all of the many new techniques we may encompass into our art. Like my instructor says, "If it works it's Krav Maga."
     
  13. reel deel

    reel deel New Member

    Seen many a crap demo in all different styles, some over rehearsed so under, I have some DVD's of Krav demo's that are really bad, but they are not professional actors, and I have a couple of DVD's with actual use of Krav in the field as videoed by Israeli soldiers for evidence gathering purposes in operations against terrorist suspects and there is no doubt as to it's effectiveness
     
  14. NaziKiller

    NaziKiller New Member

    The Palmach was disbanded in the 70's. The two most highly valued commando units in the IDF are Shayetet 13 and Sayeret MATCAL. To stay on topic, I find everything in Krav Maga to be most effective other than the ranking system (because I honestly don't like belts and dans and such).
     
  15. oosh

    oosh Valued Member

    I had a series of krav maga dvds (i forget the name) I was impressed with the empty hand applications, but some of the knife defense looked a wee bit on the dangerous side.
     
  16. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    I had a friend who had the poor luck to be in the Golani Brigade during the October war. I asked him about KM. He said "The taught us to grab the other guy and elbow him until he fell down."

    Now that's direct and practical :)
     
  17. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi All,

    KM is <IMNSHO> great in the same way that Wing Chun is great - take someone with no martial arts knowledge but with 'fire in the belly' train them for a relatively short space of time and you have a 'street' capable fighter.

    The disadvantage is when the person who has had a little KM training thinks he is 'THE MAN' and goes up against someone better trained... I have heard a story (AND IT MAY BE UNTRUE) of Israeli special forces (covert ops) NOT coming back from an assignment due to their having had enough KM training to get themselves into trouble but not enough training to see things through....

    OF COURSE the same could be said for any martial art - indeed one only has to look at 'story line 101' from any Hong Kong Kung Fu movie to see the young hero getting his ass whipped by the bad guy because he hasn't learnt enough yet... The difference being that in the movies the young hero gets to live to fight another day... In the real world... Sometimes things are not so forgiving :(

    Of course I do admit that having trained briefly with both Eyal Yanilov (KM) and Vladimir Vasiliev (Systema) - I would love to watch the two of them trade techniques... <What is the emoticon for an evil grin>

    All the best.

    Robert.
     
  18. Flipper

    Flipper Banned Banned

    Image removed - Freeform
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2006
  19. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    There's a school in my neighborhood that offers ATA TKD, aerobic kickboxing, and krav maga. The owner is a 25 yr old 4th dan in ATA TKD. I don't know his rank in aerobic kickboxing or krav maga.

    I did talk to one of his students about krav a while back, he said he likes it because it is an agressive class and they work on "lots of different stuff". <shrug> it seems to me like gimmicky marketing.
     
  20. shendu

    shendu New Member

    I saw somthing on blackbelt magazine that was quite disturbing in a way. There was a krav maga article where one of the pictures showd a defence from gun point where the defender had the attackers hand locked to the d's chest with the gun pointing upwards, now correct me if im wrong wouldn't the bullet a) recoil and blow his own head off or b) severely blind him from the flash if the pistol was fired. I personanly am a bit worried if this is what people are being thaught to do in these situations
     

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