Or if you are Mighty Mouse you wave the ref away after being kicked in the groin and continue to beat your oppoent up
A tiny bit funny, perhaps? When muggers and domestic abusers promise to only pick on victims of similar size, sex, weight and ability from the front and with their hands up, gloved and empty Or When MMA fights begin from behind, grabbing the hair, waving a knife or stick, or oointing a gun with a guard or none, mixed weight, age and gender, ... we might consider the two to be the same. For what it's worth many of our senior instructors were also combat sports competitors. They would say, the two are similar in many ways and different in many others. Do the YouTube search I suggested for how kravist might fight in a more MMA context. Train appropriately is my only point. That means, among other things, for what you anticipate.
You're sort of making his point for him. MMA ia a "known" situation. You are equally matched with your attacker. No one's going to jump in against you and no weapons will be pulled If you can't operate (and I say operate rather than win) in such a controlled environment then what chance do you have in the chaotic real environment? To put it another way if you get easily handled in an MMA match, but then say something to your opponent while still gloved and sweaty that makes him attack you for real will you then miraculously now be able to beat him?* *Although I am a proponent of targetted training for the environment you wish to operate best in, and MMA and self defence ARE different environments, I'm also of the mind that a sufficiently robust approach to self defence should also give you the tools to operate (not win) in a minimal rules sport environment too. If it doesn't it's unlikely to be reliable in a real go no matter how good you get at eye jabs.
If it doesn't work against someone of the same weight it doesn't work against someone bigger MMA deals with back takes, rear mounts, grab, chokes and strangles as par for the course - I would argue it is probably FAR better qualified to address these simply because they are drilled under MASSIVE pressure Gun/knife is a separate issue - I will add that chances of survival against a committed attack with either are slim to none I will then say "Dog Brothers" - which is essentially more violent MMA Train under pressure = perform under pressure It's no secret
"You may have beaten me in MMA but just you wait until we get these gloves off and you and a couple of bigger mates attack me from behind in the dark with weapons...then I'll be able to beat you!"
Secrets If you're preparing for the ring train for that and don't waste time on a lot of other non-ring-relevant stuff. But then don't come as a rep. of the other stuff. Is that contentious? Also, for all I know this guy is as mediocre at KM as he is at MMA. But what he does keeps him conscious for over 4 minutes. Long enough to run away if he had not put himself in such an inadvisable position. ... but I've already questioned his wisdom I doing that.
Other arts Please see my answer to Hannibal. But also consider whether Laugar is invalidated because an MMAist would probably better a student of that art in the ring.
I've never trained in Laugar, but if this is anything to go by, I don't think it's a good example for your argument: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibzGM810N4E"]ricky edwards,kilburn laugar,kung fu fight - YouTube[/ame] I think a better example might be boxing or judo. "I had a lot of success when I would be sparring with some of the fighters with my judo, but at the same time if I didn't learn wrestling, I wouldn't have a chance because if a wrestler shoots in, you're going to defend the takedown. And you're going to be fighting more wrestlers than judoka, but if we got ten wrestlers and ten judoka to go at it no gi, the wrestlers will win. There's just used to the no gi'; single legs, double legs, and they're not grabbing a gi. They'll have an advantage." - http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/6/1...illo-judo-mma-ronda-rousey-blueprint-mma-news I am in no way defending Krav, because I have not trained in it, but let's not forget that the majority of people training in MMA gyms would not have lasted as long as the Krav guy in that video. All points about being able to fight one person of equal weight before attempting to take on more are completely valid, but I do think it is a little disingenuous to assert that fighters do not have to tweak their skill set to do well at competition, especially professional fighters, who will do that for each opponent. There is another interesting point in that interview I quoted above; that you don't see much Judo in MMA because the majority of coaches are not versed in it, so they cannot adapt it for a different competition rule set. There is an ingrained technical base to MMA. This is because it works well, of course, and it gives many transferrable skills to different formats, but people like Ronda Rousey show that it is not necessarily because that common technical repertoire is the ultimate combination. Yes, it works very well for the majority of fighters, but there are cultural, as well as technical, reasons for that. One thing Remi is right about - if you want to win at MMA competition, go to a proven MMA coach. If you don't build up a repertoire catered to your opponent you are walking in blind. I bang this drum all the time, but effective operation is always intelligence led.
Laugar or any other art vs. MMA Hi David, I only chose Laugar because I confused Icefield's profile with Smitfire's. I could have chosen shidokan to answer him or FMA to answer Hannibal. Presumably all our various arts offer something we would be less likely to get from MMA. Unless we have endless time and ability, if we are training in MMA we will neglect those things, conversely if we concentrate on them we would be less likely to succeed in the ring. My point is only about time and focus on training.... Though I must admit to a little paranoia when I feel the almost inevitable krav bashing creeping in. But hey... I shouldn't be so insecure.
Since i was mentioned and this was aimed at me lau gar in MMA :evil: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AORLwyxTumk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AORLwyxTumk[/ame] I would also point out that originally jeremy Yau took his guys to fight in various venues, full contact karate and original kick boxing were just two, and they did alright there It has now become more a semi contact sport, but then still doesn't mean it doesn't work in the cage see above And i did lau for a decade, i have now done MMA and grappling for even longer and if im fighting on the streets the second is my preferred option, because i know it works under pressure and against a skilled opponent
How about this extension of the logic being used: Why don't people who train MMA go out and wipe the floor with everyone in Judo and boxing competitions? Surely it would be a walk in the park, if they are used to dealing with not just the punches and throws, but also kicks and leg takedowns and submission grappling and a cage?!
There is no "MMA" - it is a ruleset The practitioners all have backgrounds in other individual disciplines - where many do "wipe the floor" with competitors - that they then bring to an open environment where they can add other skills Name me one champion that does not have a background in a specific discipline In addition you do not need to be able to outbox a boxer; you just have to stop them outboxing you, so again the logic extension falls down
Nate Quarry on Chael Sonnen podcast saying all the guys at Team Quest couldn't take him down because he refused to wrestle. Like He kept it standing with Randy Couture when Randy was trying to take him down. He said it was because he refused to wrestle. He wouldn't fight for dominant position, he'd fight to break free then back off. Apparently it worked.
I was under the impression there was a general base in Muay Thai, Western wrestling, boxing and BJJ? The professionals, yes, but many people now start at an MMA gym. These people are learning a hybrid art, I would argue. NB: not that all these people are learning the same hybrid art, as it depends on which arts they are being coached in. I'm talking about people starting at an MMA gym, not coming to MMA from other arts. I'm not quite sure what you mean here. You make it sound like winning a world boxing title might not be all that hard Let's try stabbing this from another direction, and using a more known quantity: Is the consensus that JWT teaches an effective syllabus for the physical aspects of SD? Is the consensus that JWT's students, with no other training experience in other arts, could step into a ring and do well in an MMA rule set?
And if you are preparing for self-defense you need pressure - also you need an understanding of the ethical, legal, social and biological principles involved as well If the only difference between techniques is "kicking them in the nuts and poking the eyes" then the training method - and delivery system - need to be the same, and you need to model the best training methodology eh? When I find out what you mean I will tell you OK had this been on the cobbles, what would have changed in terms of physical execution? Would NOT having an MMA background have enabled him to survive any longer? Nope And assuming he can run away Look, I don't even TRAIN in MMA and I am a specialist in Self-Protection - but give the choice between fighting an individual just trained in RBSD and a trained athlete and I fight the man in camo pants every time
All this I agree with. I just feel that there is a middle ground being missed here, and I suspect the truth lies there.
They're probably training in those arts too. There are also levels. i.e belt level. For instance I like my chances at say, yellow-orange judo comp. I also fancy my chances at a white collar boxing event. Wrestling comp etc I'd be alright. Surely Krav can hang with baseline MMA with someone who's 0-0 or 0-2 or something like that.
Nope - they are just the most common. And even with those three there is a specialization in one of them No MMA gym that actually knows what they are doing and produces consistent fighters does this - they teach individual components and combine them in a separate class Who would then start with training in the components not in a generic "mma" No, I mean that in an MMA context I need to know enough boxing to stop them outboxing me and for me to apply my wrestling/jits/monkey paw - there is no logical extension that being able to hang with a boxer in an MMA cage means I can hang with one in a boxing ring because the tools I use to hang with are not boxing (see Chadderz example above) Yes and possibly at an amateur level - having seen how they train it would not take too much to tweak, because they strike, grapple and submit already
It's partly the person and partly the techniques, isn't it? Specialisation is unavoidable. On the extreme end, a boxer might wipe the floor with a judoka outside the pub, but be as helpless as a baby if they were in a Judo competition. But, I do agree with you. You should be able to hang with other martial artists, as long as their art is not so specialised as to be an abstraction of fighting, in which case you really need to learn their rules to be any good at it.
