Koryu Uchinadi

Discussion in 'Karate' started by nekoashi, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. nekoashi

    nekoashi Valued Member

    Anyone train this?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--etp9fi3lQ&feature=related"]Koryu Uchinadi Honbu Dojo Melbourne - YouTube[/ame]
  2. melbgoju

    melbgoju Valued Member

    Not as such...

    But, my sensei spent a lot of time over the last decade or so training with Patrick McCarthy, and we have a large koryu-uchinadi influence to our training -applications from a HAPV perspective, quite a few of the 2-person flow drills, some of the koryu uchinadi kata and the yamane-ryu bo kobudo as well. So quite a bit of that video was familiar to me.

    It's one of the big reasons I went for the school and instructor that I did. And best of all, I'm going to a seminar with McCarthy Hanshi this weekend. :cool:
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2011
  3. nekoashi

    nekoashi Valued Member

    Very interesting. Would love to go to one of those.
  4. nekoashi

    nekoashi Valued Member

    Wow, really thought the topic would spark a furious discussion. McCarthy is the real deal.
  5. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi 'nekoashi',

    One of the first things that I learned after joining MAP is that compared to some of the forums I had been on previously, MAP seems much more random when it comes to which threads take off and which languish in obscurity :)
  6. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Yeah hard to say what comments will come up.

    The stuff in the video looked nice. I will say it is unusual to see many of the things in the video as part of regular karate training. Most things such as the grappling is usually from cross-training. Many karateka, for example, were also judoka and I remember being placed in locks many times after being taken down.

    I remember first time Higoanna Sensei put a finger lock on me after slamming me to the ground and the first time I saw Chinen Sensei use an armbar, both times I was caught by surprise. After seeing them perform these techniques more frequently, I did not see them as so unusual to see in karate.
  7. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    It may have been on an other board but I remember a thread about whether sensei McCarthy's group was "Koryu" as it had the word in its title.

    Of course it isn't - and they don't claim to be, but, as I undestand it, most of what the group promogulate is based in research in terms of binding back karate to it's origins - as far as they understand it.

    This in itself makes it subjective and perhaps why people here aren't too clappy clappy about it.

    Just a thought.

    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
  8. nekoashi

    nekoashi Valued Member

    Have you looked into it much? There are a lot of fellow Matsubayashi Ryu converts to KU, including Jim Sindt of youtube fame. I think because we have a lot of similar drills and our style is pretty traditional Okinawan Karate, so I think this resonates with us more than our Japanese Karate stylist friends.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  9. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Urgh, I dislike a topic that is started that gives the impression that the original poster has no involvement in the topic but later it is obvious they do.

    What is your opinion or take on KU nekoashi?
  10. nekoashi

    nekoashi Valued Member

    I don't have any involvement in it. As for what I think, I think it is the rediscovery of exactly what karate should be. It just seems that there are aspects of it that fill in some holes in the style I study and was really hoping that others on here have studied it extensively, or re-examined their own style based upon it.
  11. sbmumford

    sbmumford Valued Member

    Odd, this looks exactly like the American jiu jitsu I studied at New York Jiu Jitsu. It looks like we did these same 2 person drills, pressure points and padwork drills that are featured on this video.
    I wonder if both descend from Kenpo and are thus very close?
  12. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Since the kenpo you probably are talking about was developed in Hawaii, more likely the similarities are because of influence from kenpo/kempo karate. In places like Hawaii, karate was not called karate but was known as kenpo karate in the 1920s-1940s and had quite reputation for great fighters.

    One of the common links was through Choki Motobu.


    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  13. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

  14. nekoashi

    nekoashi Valued Member

  15. nekoashi

    nekoashi Valued Member

    The common thread in my opinion is Okinawa. Our style is about as authentically Okinawan Karate as you can get anywhere outside of Okinawa. Back in the day, some of the Okinawans that were teaching in our system's schools were teaching a whole bunch of things that many of our schools have moved away from. This included randori, throws, etc. Our hand drills have survived intact from those days. I believe that McCarthy just pulled all kinds of sticky hand drills out of Okinawa, as they are pretty common place in various styles on the island.

    Kempo is just a term used to describe martial arts derived from Chinese influence. The Okinawans called their style "China Hand" before it became politically incorrect to do so under the Japanese who were at war with China back in the day.
  16. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Personally I think that Pat McCarthy clearly has a lot of skill and a lot of the techniques he teaches are very effective. But I don't like the way that he's come up with ever more complex series of drills to get the lessons across.

    Like the language used to describe his art, the drills seem to become ever more convoluted. I think you can overdo it with the sesquipedalian and loquacious promulgation of simplistic combative paradigms.

    I practice some of his tegumi drills myself, and have even further developed some of them. But its never been entirely clear where he got them from. I'd be interested in any information you can pass on about similar Okinawan drills.

  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    This guy looks decent, I like his style.
  18. nekoashi

    nekoashi Valued Member

    Matsubayashi Ryu is best defined in "The Essence of Okinawan Karate" "Shoshin Nagamine) and The Shorin Ryu Question and Answe Book" (Robert Scaglione). Yet, these drills are not in them. Only way to pass them on is in person. You can look up "sticky hands" on Youtube and find a bunch of similar drills. I have yet to come across the specific ones we do.

    The biggest problem we have is lack of time. There is so much to learn, practice and drill. You can only do so much. Heck, depending on your school we have 18-20 katas in Matsubayashi. It makes sense to focus on one and practice drill and reherse around that one. However, for whatever reason no karate schools I know of are focused on one kata.
  19. sbmumford

    sbmumford Valued Member

    Earlier I was refering to the similarity between the techniques in the video and American Jiu Jitsu, not Matsubayashi karate. In our Matsubayashi (Shorin Ryu) dojo we train none of the techniques I saw in that koryu uchinadi sampler; it's really a pretty straightforward striking karate style. The closest think to sticky hands are our arm-conditioning drills. We use no mats because we don't do regular throws or takedowns, except as they might occur in spontaneous kumite by those familiar with such techniques.

    However the relationship between American Jiu Jitsu (whatever that is and whatever eclectic sources it may have been drawn from) and koryu uchinadi seems quite direct.
    I can find little about AJJ and it's relationship to other JJ styles on the web. I believe that it's a hodge-podge art, which frankly suffers from too many techniques - boxing, as well - so that its practitioners don't wind up doing anything really well.
    But I stand to be corrected!
  20. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Not sure where you got that idea from? That was just an example of recent MAP & McCarthy interaction. I had professional issues with that particular diagram, but I explained those in detail on that thread in a logical and unbiased manner.

    Any issues I might have with Mr MCCarthy stem from soured relations between him and a few good friends of mine, but those are personal rather than professional issues.

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