Koryu: Techniques only

Discussion in 'Koryu Bujutsu' started by Graham, Jul 8, 2012.

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  1. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Hmm. Firstly, the Hontai Yoshin Ryu has nothing to do with Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu, that's from a different Yoshin lineage (the Hontai Yoshin Ryu is from the Takagi lineage of systems). As to the rest, while I love getting to watch various clips, I'm not sure what relevance you're trying to bring here....
  2. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    Hinoshita Toride Kaizan Takenouchi-ryū (日下 捕手 開山 竹内流?) is one of the oldest jujutsu koryū in Japan. It was founded in 1532, the first year of Tenbun on the twenty-fourth of the sixth lunar month by Takenouchi Chūnagon Daijō Nakatsukasadaiyū Hisamori, the lord of Ichinose Castle in Sakushū. Although it is famous for its jūjutsu, Takenouchi Ryū is actually a complete system of martial arts including armed grappling (yoroi kumiuchi), staff (bōjutsu), sword (kenjutsu), sword drawing (iaijutsu), glaive (naginatajutsu), iron fan (tessenjutsu), restraining rope (hojōjutsu), and resuscitation techniques (sakkatsuhō). Its jūjutsu techniques have been influential in the founding of many other schools in Japan. Takenouchi Ryū is still actively transmitted today by members of the Takenouchi family, as well as by other groups both within and outside of Japan.

    Takenouchi Ryū has exerted a strong influence in the development of jūjutsu. The branches of the Takenouchi Ryū have subsequently have influenced schools directly or indirectly and thus many techniques found in modern jūdō and aikidō can be traced back to their roots in Takenouchi Ryū in one way or another. A number of important jūjutsu koryū were founded by students of the school, such as the Rikishin Ryū, Fusen Ryū, Sōsuishitsu Ryū, Takagi Ryū and its branches (such as Hontai Yōshin Ryū), and Araki Ryū. These ryūha have incorporated many techniques from Takenouchi Ryū either directly from the school or by analyzing the techniques of its exponents.

    The nearest Takeuchi-ryu dojo is run by Anna Seabourne, located in the United Kingdom (West Yorkshire) the Shōfukan.


    Yōshin-ryū (楊心流?) ("The School of the Willow Heart") [1] is a common name for one of several different martial traditions founded in Japan in the Edo Period. The most popular and well-known was the Yōshin-ryū line founded by physician Akiyama Shirōbei Yoshitoki in Nagasaki in 1632.[1] The Akiyama line of Yōshin-ryū is perhaps the most influential school of jūjutsu to exist in Japan. By the late Edo Period, Akiyama Yōshin-ryū and its descendants had spread all over Japan. By the Meiji Era, Yōshin-ryū had even spread overseas to Europe and North America.

    Schools descended from Akiyama Yōshin-ryū jūjutsu include:

    Danzan ryu, Shin Yōshin ryū, Shin Shin ryū, Sakkatsu Yōshin ryū, Shin no Shindō ryū, Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū, Shindō Yōshin-ryū, Takamura ha Shindō Yōshin ryū, Wadō-ryū (a modern Jūjutsu Kenpo/Karate school based on Shindō Yōshin-ryū), Yamanaka ha Shindō ryū, Ryushin Katchu ryū, Ito ha Shin'yō ryū, Kurama Yōshin ryū, Kōdōkan Jūdō, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū (天神真楊流?), literally meaning "Divine True Willow School", can be classified as a traditional school (koryū) of jujutsu. It was founded by Iso Mataemon Minamoto no Masatari in the 1830s. Once a very popular jujutsu system in Japan, among the famous students who studied the art were Kano Jigoro, whose modern art of judo was greatly inspired by the Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū, and Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of aikido

    Essentially, Tenjin Shinyo-ryu is the amalgamation of two separate systems of jujutsu: the Yōshin-ryū and Shin no Shinto-ryu. The distinctive feature of this particular school is the use of atemi or strikes to disrupt the balance of the opponent as well as a more flexible and flowing movement of the body than seen in some older schools of jujutsu. The older schools employ somewhat larger and slower movements to mimic the use of armour in the battlefield. Tenjin Shinyo-ryu was developed after the period of civil war in Japan; thus, without armor, the movements emphasized were faster and more strikes were incorporated. The strikes were also primarily aimed at human vital points and meridians, which were exposed due to the lack of armor.

    The nearest Tenjin Shinyo-ryu is in Essex.
  3. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Why are you spamming the thread with text?
  4. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Okay, you can copy-and-paste... but what are you trying to say?
  5. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    I'm posting koryu techniques only. the first 10 kata you learn in hontai yoshin ryu.

    Would you like to join me in posting your kata, the techniques only?




    And the techniques you first get taught.
  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member


    Why not start a new thread?

    See how it goes then.

    As it is posting clips isn't really going to get you anywhere. Especially considering how new you are to the art, have you started yet?

    Not to mention the various difficulties you may come across when trying to discuss koryu kata on a forum.
  7. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    In addition to the incorrect history trying to link Hontai Yoshin Ryu to Akiyama Yoshin Ryu, this is really not what this thread is about, as Dean suggested, perhaps a new thread is in order if that's what you're wanting to do. Not sure quite what you're wanting to achieve, though... most (who are aware of Koryu) are already fairly well up on the differences between each of the systems, and you might find that some Ryu-ha don't have much in the way of readily available clips (including Hontai Yoshin, really... what is there is only a small smattering of what that Ryu teaches), so it might not get too far.
  8. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    I want to learn all the systems that created judo.
    How do i go about that?
  9. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Do you want three or four wives too?

    Again start a new thread. Your wish to study koryu and how to go about it has sort of been done to death on MAP.

    You are lucky to have access to some ryu-ha so pick one, pray that they will have you, and study.
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Why out of interest?
  11. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Hontai Yoshin Ryu isn't one of them. And there's some contention as to exactly which systems, beside Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu and Kito Ryu had what degree of influence. But I do have to echo Hannibal and ask why? Oh, and realistically, you don't. If you want to understand judo's make-up... study judo.
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Damn you Parker you stole my punchline!!!!!!
  13. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    My goodness, you're sounding like the Borg. ;)

    Koryu are traditional martial arts and therefore have you know, traditions. The only thing that matters is preserving the art. Nothing else. You might not like that, and that's OK. You might have differing priorities, and that's OK too. But you have no place telling others what their priorities should be. For some, it's making money, hence the daycare/mcdojo model. For some, it's physical training, for others, stress relief.

    The comparison to classical music is valid. One could easily say, the purpose of music is to entertain the largest segment of the masses while making the largest profit. I disagree. I think that's a shallow way of looking at it, but the prevailing view amongst record producers is just that. They look at a bitter old jazz musician like me and why I prefer to perform repertoire that was written in the 40's and 50's. Classical and jazz music are like koryu. But they're still music depsite the opinions of the public at large ("why do you listen to that stuff?????"), and require a fanatical devotion to perform even marginally well.

    We are very lucky to have Koryu. In the West, our combative traditions mutated beyond all recognition in many cases. The loss has been terrible, IMO. Look at European longsword, and then modern sabre fencing. Is sabre fencing "better" because it's optimized for sabre fencing matches in the modern day? While we developed sabre fencing, we sacrificed longsword, messer, lance, arming sword, pollaxe and a host of martial traditions that went by the wayside, because they were no longer relevant to victory in the field. It would have been nice to have the former without abandoning the latter. We could have used our own koryu.

    Best regards,

  14. Da Lurker

    Da Lurker Valued Member

    and the kata (and its corresponding ura/kuden about philosophy and applications and historical accounts), which by the way, is a MODULE for learning certain principles, aren't methods on the road to victory? (ever had a field instructor teach you navigation I and II?)

    and by the way classical music and classical martial arts aren't very far off: their quality is subject to subjective interpretation, they were considered GOOD during their time, they fulfill a niche during OUR time.
  15. Da Lurker

    Da Lurker Valued Member

    JJ Jameson, is that you? :p

    is he strong?
    listen good
    hes got radioactive blood
    can he swing from a thread
    take a look overhead
    hear that?
    there goes a spiderman

    in the chill of night
    at scene of the crime
    like a streak of light,
    he arrives just in time
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Nope, the bjkn is a great example of taking something classic such as TYR, and ruining its value by shody inaccurate teaching.
  17. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    So is there something wrong with learning the technical aspects of Koryu martial arts without having a desire or intent to pass it on in the classical/traditional manner?
  18. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Yes sort of.

    Well maybe not intent to pass it on as some of us won't reach that level but the technical aspects are intertwined with everything else.

    The desire to preserve it certainly that's part of the deal.

    Hmm though it might help if you say what you mean by technical aspects?

    Each of us may have different view as to what that'll cover depending on our experience and ryu-ha.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  19. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

  20. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member


    I expanded on my post as you answered.
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