Knowing when to change candence

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by SiAiS, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. SiAiS

    SiAiS Moved on

    Did you ever consider when it is appropriate to change the cadence of one's entry into a contact situation?

    Do you feel that it is better to move ahead of time, or to move into exactly the correct "position" to intercept at the moment of desired contact?
     
  2. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    While I don't practice JKD, I think I might have some ideas that could be relevant. It all depends on the situation at hand naturally but a lot of it has to do with what your opponent is doing.

    In Japanese MA there are three different ideas behind anticipating what your opponent will do and how you will react: "go no sen", "sen no sen", and "sen sen no sen".

    "Go no sen" is where you know where your opponent is going to attack (i.e. a right swinging punch to the face) so you allow that to happen, then defend against and counter the attack accordingly (i.e. for this instance, maybe moving to the outside and blasting a straight lead to your opponent's face).

    "Sen no sen" is where you know when your opponent will move, so you attack before he can. This would be where you'd see your opponent telegraphing for that same right swing and step in and blast him with that straight lead before he even has the chance to commit to the punch.

    "Sen sen no sen" is where you sense that your opponent has actually thought to attack but before he can do any kind of preparatory movement BAM you're floored him with your straight lead. This is beyond hitting the guy when he telegraphs, it's more like sensing the intent and blasting him before his mind can even process it.

    So, with your question, it all depends on what you feel in the moment. If you know he's doing that wide swinging punch, you can move inside first to boggle his nerves and then attack before he even can, or wait until just the last moment and then move and attack.
     
  3. SiAiS

    SiAiS Moved on

    Thank you Kuma, I can appreciate what it is that you are saying.

    Philosophically, in consideration outside of the boudaries of the martial arts can you also say that the same thing is true?

    Let's say that you love the next participant. That you would like to own them completely and to share with them everything that you have learnt during the course of both your life and your training. Do you suppose then that you could take the same approach in sharing yourself with them in a loving way, which is compassionate, and to shed any negativity that you previously associated with them, them being the connection you previously faced, but which also represent the future connection with the people/persons/situation that approach at this moment. Do you believe that you could transition between not wanting that situation and embrassing it fully, in an instant?
     
  4. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    Broken beats can be used to confuse an OP an to facilatate an opening
     
  5. SiAiS

    SiAiS Moved on

    Sounds like a fundamental principle of Jeet Kune Do.

    When you intercept, how important do you feel the transfer of energy between yourself and that person actually is? Suppose that you can immediately take the opponents energy, remove their grounded connection and make it physically impossible for them to move during that moment.

    Take a ball and roll it along a table, so that it falls off the end, try with different speeds so that you can see the arc that it creates during its journey to the floor. Do you notice that the ball seems to lift from the surface before it goes down? Clearly this is impossible, right?

    Now consider the energy of the opponent in the same vain, if the energy source of the ball is lifting in some way, what would be the effect of removing that upwards energy? Rather, not removing it but nullifying it completely, would the ball simple stop dead in its tracks?

    I know it seems like a bit of a nonsense, because clearly the ball is going down right. However, anyone who has ever learnt to develop explosive short power may be able to relate to this, where once one is able to accelerate instantly it becomes clear that previously there had been some unconcious energy source (be it fear or whatever) that had been restricting the possibility of that action.

    I don't know, just something I noticed during my training recently.

    I wonder also, how many of you train the tools, strikes, blocks, traps and so on, that where the form of the tool has no visible technique connected to it? And, whether there are any sources drills and so on to fascilitate a more thorough understanding of the possibilities that this type of formless practice can provide? For example, I know what Bong Sau is supposed to look like, but when I practice my Bong Sau my arm really becomes almost straight with something that looks more familiar to an eye strike... then if I use exactly the same tool, delivered in the same fashion in which I train it, against someone thowing a hook, the Bong Sau happens to form into the technique that is recognisable my a Wing Chun practitioner.

    Also, how is one able to advance ones training beyond the point of teaching another person, from a basic level of having mastered the foundations of practice? I find that I am unable to get anything from classes because I want to embrase the practice to such an extend that it seems inappropriate, this I cannot find a way to explain fully but I hope that a more advanced practitioner can understand, my feeling from training with senior practitioners in the past is that they would know exactly what I am talking about. I have some trouble which I feel may be counter-intuitive, where for example, when I teach Chi Sau I find that it is difficult to still the student to a degree of being able to maintain equal pressure for any length of time, because the student is always asking questions about why this is necassary. Then I usually demonstrate by opening the connections hitting and trapping. Now I notice there that often when I trap, when I know that I have the connection, that I absolutely love it, when I trap the opponent I know that I have it and I ... what I'm trying to say is that while I realise myself that my expression here is contradradictary to what I am trying to demonstrate - that I can't help thinking that there must be something more to it!

    Especially that trapping scenario it reminded me of the importance of the Sil Lum Tao form and how simple even the position/angles of the arms and the transitions between techniques are perfectly formed to direct the energies in the desired way. Again, I'm sure that I've mentioned this before, that I attended one Tai Chi class last year and I found that it opened up so much possibility. I think that the importance of Chi Kung practice is often misunderstood and that the Tai Chi forms themselves hold power that is difficult to appreciate.
     
  6. Stevie Bhoy

    Stevie Bhoy Valued Member

    Personally in my humble opinion, I think it would be better to not think about it. To have a clear head. To have it as instinct. Why clutter the mind?
     
  7. february

    february Valued Member

    Spar, and you'll learn how to do it - and whether or not it's effective.
     
  8. Stevie Bhoy

    Stevie Bhoy Valued Member

    Spar is the wrong word February. Train, until it becomes an instinct. Again just my humble opinion!!
     
  9. february

    february Valued Member

    Why is spar the wrong word?
     
  10. SiAiS

    SiAiS Moved on

    Because when you pick up this tool it simply comes to life, there is no decision.
     
  11. february

    february Valued Member

    What now?
     
  12. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    sparring is the best way to develop that instinct
    to which you are referring to, how else could you develop such a skill level?
     
  13. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    You can't have it both ways though. If you're going to train it, you intellectualize the problem first, then train it, then internalize it, then it's a sort of manufactured instinct. I don't think it's true that people have an inherent and natural ability to vary cadence effectively.
     
  14. shuyun3

    shuyun3 Shugyosha

    I agree with Ap,

    Fighting is problem solving, you use techniques because it solves the problems presented to you. You decide this skill set is the best answer to your problems so you train them until it answers the problems, until you encounter a new problem that doesn't get solved by what you have.

    So you search, or experiment and when you find the next answer train it again.
     
  15. LikeWater

    LikeWater New Member

    Very well stated shuyun3. Ideally we solve the problem and not vice versa.
     

Share This Page