Knife beats stick

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by mewtwo55555, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. mewtwo55555

    mewtwo55555 Valued Member

    So yesterday me and a partner tested knife vs stick. We both went at it like we wanted to kill each other.

    When he had the stick and me the knife he might have broken a bone or two if it had been a real heavy stick but I would have killed him. The same thing happened when he had the knife and I the stick.

    Basically we both went into it knowing we would be hit and as long as the person did not incapacitate us we were going to kill the other person.

    The major takeaway from this is that I would not want to fight someone with a knife. Sure you might break a bone in there arm or such but if you do not hit the head and incapacitate them, they can cut you a million ways and kill you on many different body parts. The question you have to ask yourself is will breaking a bone make the knife attacker stop? How many times has a broken bone stopped someone from doing something they wanted?

    So I guess what are your thoughts?
  2. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Well, it really depends on what bone you break. A if you actually break the bones around the area where they are holding the knife, they can't hold the knife anymore, can they?

    If I am holding a stick vs a knife (and I cant run away) my first thought isn't to kill the other person, it is to incapacitate them. Of course you go for what opening you have, but my focus would be on the hand holding the knife.

    I really practice striking the hand a lot when stick fighting, and I have gotten pretty good at it. Surprising, since the hand/ wrist is a small target. But I find it easier than moving into the body.

    Fighting someone with a knife is only a last resort, when getting away won't work though. It's bad news.
  3. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    How experienced are you with a weapon, especially the stick?

    The stick's advantage is distance, so how good was your distancing, footwork, angulation etc?

    Also if I'm going to stop a committed knife attack I'm not looking to break a bone.

    You'll have to do more damage than that.
  4. mewtwo55555

    mewtwo55555 Valued Member

    So to clarify a bit we were doing this during practice. Also forgot to mention the knife in question was a 7 inch Kabar rubber knife.

    The guy with the knife would walk back and forth around the guy with the stick. Stick guy would not know when the knife attack would happen. Cause that is what happens in a real attack. Guy with knife would use his free hand to block or stop the stick and repeatedly stab in a "sewing machine" style attack at the other guy.

    What was going through my mind when I attacked the stick guy was "I am going to kill this person so the FBI will stop using my dental implants to send messages to the aliens." Trying my best to mimic a mental person and someone who does not care anymore.

    Maybe you can break the bones of the hand. But they are a very small target also what about swapping the knife to the other hand?

    Carry on these are just my thoughts.

    How often have you guys practiced knife versus stick in as realistic situation as possible?
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  5. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Attacks in the most part don't come out of nowhere.

    Thankfully the attacks in London yesterday are the exception, not the norm.

    In most cases there is a set up and that's where awareness comes in.

    You have already mentioned the knife attacker would walk back and forth around the guy with the stick.

    Why were you not taking action at this point, even if it was just improved positioning?

    What protective equipment were you using?

    Did you have WEKAF style headgear to allow full power strikes to the head?

    You ask about how often we train realistically, but let's first establish what is real and what isn't.
  6. mewtwo55555

    mewtwo55555 Valued Member

    I agree attacks dont come out of nowhere as in somone might have an issue with another person. But generally speaking knife attacks are ambushes. Which is why I was waiting for the knife guy to make the first move. Generaly the attacker gets the first move.

    We were wearing some old hand gloves and padded head gear. General sparing stuff not WEKAF style.

    here is a link to an article about knife defense I have found it interesting.
  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Most attacks aren't ambushes.

    Is your assumption based on local crime statistics, home office/police records, or your commonly held belief?

    You've seen a person acting suspiciously, but allowed them to make the first move.

    Situational awareness is one of the major factors when it comes to self defence.

    The attacker gets the first move if you switch off and allow it to happen.

    It's great that you pressure tested, but by not having adequate headgear you have removed much of the stick fighters arsenal.

    it's worth doing the drill again, but invest in some proper headgear.

    Alternatively made yourself some padded sticks.
  8. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    I was wondering about that, too.

    Way back in time I did FMA. Three thoughts: (1) all the sticks we used were significantly longer than a 7-inch knife, and (2) impact disarms work, and (3) a head shot with a stick will probably stop the fight.

    I'm sure you can find and use a little stick, but assuming "normal" kali sticks almost 2-feet long -- nothing in life is a guarantee, but come on, head shots and impact disarms?

    Somewhere on this forum there's a thread wherein I argue that I'd rather have a knife over a stick that's 1 inch longer because 1 inch isn't enough to overcome the cut/stab benefit of a blade. Another guy with more experience than me argued strongly that he'll take the longer weapon every time. I have since come to realize he was right. Reach does matter. If the fighters have equal skill the stick should win because of the reach advantage. Head shots and impact disarms. :dunno:
  9. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    The knife fighter gets in range and you are toast.

    There is a rather horrific video showing 7 police officers trying to stop one man with a knife.

    They fail and the result is disturbing to say the least.

    Situational awareness is the key.

    The knife is a great training tool and does make you question all of your other training, but we have to be careful when calling something self defence training.

    If you are training to deal with someone with a knife and you have a stick are you assuming you have half a pool cue, or a broken beer glass?

    if this is the case I wouldn't be letting them get in the first strike.
  10. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Agreed. That was the reason I argued that a 1 inch reach advantage wouldn't be enough. The stab/cut ability is too nasty. (shudder)

    Well, a broken beer glass is a "knife." ;)
  11. mewtwo55555

    mewtwo55555 Valued Member

    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  12. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Are you working just single strikes with the stick.

    if it gets to the stage where you are defending your life you need to be doing multiple strikes.

    Good stick training will show you how to be fluid, with one strike flowing into the other.

    The guy in the video struck once hoping it would do the trick.

    if you are doing the same then record your training and review where you could be doing multiple strikes.

    if you are untrained with the stick you are just a cavemen doing caveman type strikes.
  13. mewtwo55555

    mewtwo55555 Valued Member

    Will you tell me what training like this you have done? Why do you have an alternative view?

    I am trying to understand and become a better martial artist.
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    My stick work is from Eskrima.

    My JKD is heavily focused on self defence.

    the alternative view is just me trying to put a different slant on self defence, because the first thing we ask is what could we have done better.

    In this instance I think it was situational awareness and the fact you could have struck first.

    That said I applaud you for doing the pressure training.
  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

  16. mewtwo55555

    mewtwo55555 Valued Member

    Well thank you.

    Also I am looking at it from the aspect of "if sticks are so great, why dont the police just use a baton to take out knife attackers and such."

    I agree that situational awareness is a huge thing but from all the research I have done only stupid knife attackers make it so you can see the knife before you are being stabbed.

    Maybe I could have struck first but I guess I was also looking at it from a "I would then be the aggressor point of view.
  17. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    While that may be true there are cues. if someone reaches for a pocket for example it is definitely time for a pre-emptive strike.

    That's not legally the case.

    You are allowed to strike first (pre-emptive strike).

    You don't have to wait to be assaulted, because then it's too late.

    What you do need to do though is articulate why you struck first and basically it's because you were in genuine fear for your safety.
  18. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    If its not been mentioned before, you could thrust the stick into the throat. Police sticks tend to be metal, well for the U.K unless its for public order.
  19. mewtwo55555

    mewtwo55555 Valued Member

    Generally speaking an extendable baton should not be used to jab with. Allot of manufactures do not advise doing that because the baton might collapse back into itself. Monadnock has a baton that locks out with rods and such and that can be used for jabbing. The monadnock autolock is the name of the baton.
  20. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Maybe jab is the wrong term, as thrust is more accurate.

    I'd have no problem jabbing with a stick, as it'd be the butt end I'd be using.

    it gives you an additional few inches of reach.

Share This Page