knife attack question

Discussion in 'Silat' started by AK-47, Jun 8, 2006.

  1. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    L Coy 75th Rangers and later team 2/2 Mike Force 5th SF group.

    That's impressive! Hoooah righ back at you Mas Tristan :D

    Salam

    P.S. I hope you consider donate for the earthquake in Jogja, its good for the soul (karma) ... do you still have contact with family in Jawa?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2006
  2. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

     
  3. leon_x

    leon_x Dai Low


    makes sense to me! why give them the opportunity to take out the knife!!
     
  4. relish

    relish Valued Member

    If you are sure that the oppenent is going to attack then it is within the law to launch a pre-emptive strike.. If possible get them on the floor as quick as possible, stamp on their thigh or calf (not lethal but they won't be able to walk properly) and run away. I think for knife attacks you are allowed to use more force because of the danger of the weapon if that's right?
     
  5. leon_x

    leon_x Dai Low

    well for any self defence the court will use the resonable test. if another person would of acted in the same way then it is considered reasonable. well of course there is an objective and subjective test, so it might be reasonable to disable an armed attacker by breaking his arm for example, but unreasonable to continue and kick the **** out of him.
     
  6. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Everyone who is serious about self defense really should become familiar with its legal and ethical dimensions. And no, your martial arts teacher probably isn't qualified to them to you. As always, I strongly recommend Massad Ayoob's LFI-I course or at least books such as In the Gravest Extreme.
     
  7. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    Use of Force


    What Todd said. Basically, you are only allowed to use as much force as necessary to stop an attack. You can't, once the guy stops, chase him down the street and stab him a few times, nor shoot him there, nor even pound on him.

    Self-defense is allowed. Revenge is not.

    Since you are the guy on the scene, you can offer your belief that you had to do what you did to survive -- and there have been some interesting cases that have passed muster. In Portland a few years back, a man shot a car prowler who was breaking into his automobile. The prowler was a skinny kid and the owner was much larger; the prowler was unarmed, but the owner said that the kid ran at him in a "menancing" manner and he fired to protect himself. The grand jury didn't charge the shooter.

    Had the kid survived to testify, that might have easily gone the other way.

    In Oregon and Washington, you can "defend your castle." In some states, you are required to run away if you can, and that includes your own house.
    These are called "back-to-the-wall" laws, and the only way you can use deadly force is if you could not reasonably escape.

    Before you commence to slicing and dicing or thumping and shooting, best if you know what the local laws allow.
     
  8. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Say someone attacked you and tried to stab you but you manage to take the knife off of him, Would you then use that blade on him or would you kick his ass without using the blade?
     
  9. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Martial artists and martial arts teachers are not the best people to go to for legal advice. The basic laws concerning self defense, in at least that part of the world whose legal system is based on British Common Law, are relatively straightforward. They are also worth looking at if living at home and avoiding prison are in your plans. Massad Ayoob's LFI-1: Judicious Use of Deadly Force is the Gold Standard for this sort of instruction. His book In the Gravest Extreme is oriented towards firearms, but the principles are universal.
     
  10. tim_stl

    tim_stl Valued Member

    when i was younger and a little more foolish, i once asked my teacher about the legality of the things he was showing me. his response was simple: you are responsible for your own actions.



    tim
     
  11. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    True, but not terribly helpful if you're looking for "shoot - don't shoot" advice.
     
  12. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Some interesting knife/weapon techniques here

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2DtCUfCyfk&search=silat[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDGSJJ3rG6k&search=silat"]YouTube[/ame]

    This guy has a curious style of fighting, very soft

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B7N9_Y8KVA&search=silat"]YouTube[/ame]
     
  13. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    That would be Scott Sonnon who is quite simply a frickin' genius.
     
  14. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    Knife Stuff

     
  15. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Interesting stuff it makes me smile ;)
    Moving inside or moving straight into the firing line is consider a very high risk or suicidal. We do similat techniques but we are moving away from the straight line into 11 o'clok. Moving into 1 o'clok is an offensive move meaning you are "on" kill or be kill.
    Staying in one place and just using the hands to avoid to get stub/stub was dumb!
    I could be wrong too,
    Tristan
     
  16. AK-47

    AK-47 New Member

    Sonnon learned some stuff in Russia and introduced some of Russia's martial art's training methods to the West....if you want to see more have a look at russian master's teachings:

    Alexander Retuinski (Sonnon's former instructor) founder of ROSS.
    Alexei kadochnikov (Retuinski's former instructor): founder of the Kadochnikov System.
     
  17. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    Against the Knife

    Brother Tristan --

    I don't have enough knife experience to be offering advice, and what I have learned so far is but a scratch on the surface. We don't go straight at the knife, either, we sector and turn to control the attack. I think our philosophy is that a guy coming at you with a blade expects you to back up or maybe even freeze, but he don't expect you to attack him barehanded.

    Nor would I wish to do so, but if I'm getting out of the shower and I don't have my knife or gun handy, then I want whatever will give me the best chance of survival.

    Generally, we want to wind up shoulder to shoulder or shoulder to sternum, depending on whether we take the inside or outside line, and we don't want to offer any trades -- I punch, he stabs -- until we control the knife. If we have a knife of our own, that's way different, but blocking one cut and then poppng out a backfist before he can cut again isn't how we do it.

    Against a good silat player with a blade, we know we're gonna get cut, the only question is where and how bad, and can we stop him before he lands a fatal strike.

    Stevan is fond of saying better to be stitched up in the ER than hooked up to tubes in the ICU ...


     
  18. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Word of wise indeed.
    Tristan
     
  19. TheDarkJester

    TheDarkJester 90% Sarcasm, 10% Mostly Good Advice.

    Most imagery of Filipino styles I see check the wrist to counter. Personally after almost being stabbed in the chest this weekend, my interest in FMA's has needless to say skyrocketed. In spite of everything I was taught in mantis boxing.. it really is true.. that false bravado goes out the window when someone tries to stick you in the chest. I consider myself lucky yet shaken on how helpless I felt in the situation.

    A few days prior to this event I tried testing my "knife defence" skills with a friend of mine who has done Hapkido in the past and with medium resistance I would have ended up cut, and probably a broken arm or two. I can't even imagine full resistance against someone who is seriously trying to carve a friggin Z into your chest. So comes the realization that me being 6'8.. most people aren't going to get into a protracted boxing match with me.. and its much easier to take me down with a blade than bare knuckles.. at least barefist I'll fight till I'm either knocked out or knocking someone out.
     
  20. rizal

    rizal Valued Member

    in the same situation i hope i was wearing trousers.
    which means...belts! :D
    people always forget that they are also usually carrying 'weapons' :Angel:
     

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