I would love to, but I'm kinda broke and can't travel to Wales. But hey, there must be more than one person in England who can demonstrate chi, mustn't there? I'm sure there's some up in London. Anyone who'd be happy to demonstrate chi to or on me, please raise your hand. As I've said, I would love to see it proven, and if I'm convinced I will quite happily come onto the board and retract everything that I've said before about it. A poor attitude and demanding proof are not the same thing. A judge is not considered to have a poor attitude when he lets someone go for lack of evidence, or convicts them because they have no alibi.
Shade, Im not saying those things...that was Syd. I wasn't saying anything like that either. I wouldn't look to Bunny for a straight version of anything I did or didn't say. By the way Bunny, if you think Hyper Dimensional Physics is the realm of science fiction or fantasy, why don't you go talk to Richard C Hoagland and people like Mark J Carlotto and the Nasa boys about Mars and planets such as Jupiter... I'll leave that one for you to research; just keep the little formula 19.5 degree's at the forefront of your mind and you can't go wrong. I'm not wasting anymore precious time on this... just don't expect me to sit back when I'm blatantly mis-quoted. Oh and Bunny, if you want to see Qi disruption at work, you'll need to see a video by Erle Montaigue called Qi disruption volume 1. On it Erle goes through 4 seperate students and shows the effect of Qi disruption and it's application. Syd,
Ok go and see Paul Brecher in London . Look him up on google. And yes i believe you have a very poor attitude, and just cannot stand having anyone question your high and mightyness.
Ah yes, the face on mars and other such, and the all-powerful aliens that seeded our planet. Like I said. Science fiction. http://members.aol.com/garypos2/Hoagland.html Especially since you're so modest and accepting of the possibility that you could be wrong yourself. Ah well, nevermind. I bow down to your greatness. Shame he doesn't offer a refund on his June '04 workshop, but hopefully I'll have the money by then to afford an 80 quid loss.
Ah yes, the face on mars and other such, and the all-powerful aliens that seeded our planet. Like I said. Science fiction. There's nothing wrong with their mathematics my friend. Why don't you play the ball and not the man?
There's nothing wrong with their maths so long as you accept both their original assumptions, and their conclusions as to what the maths mean. Hyperdimensional physics is not yet a recognised field, one day it may be, and we'll be able to jet through hyperspace, however at the moment it is sheer science fiction.
I think you need to look at what they discuss regarding the rotational behaviours of planets like Jupiter and the like. I haven't seen anybody come out and refute that, or have problems with their models. Planets aren't science fiction, but again we digress...
How sad that such a valuable method of body awareness and energy cultivation could be so completely trampled on. It is disheartening to see people like bunny invoking and consequently misusing science to cut down something they clearly know nothing about. Science is not about closing your mind, it is about discovery, and understanding MORE. You want evidence? 1) find a qualified Chi Gung instructor. 2) practice for a long time. 3) Most importantly, LOSE THE EGO. In the mean time, you have a right to your opinions, but I feel like it may be more valuable for the rest of us to warn new students away from closing their minds just because someone says to.
First of all my humble apologies to anyone I may have annoyed with any of my comments on here. Secondly, and this is to LBR, you dont have to just spend £80 and wait until June 04. You said you would love to learn more about chi, and you asked for someone in London. I give you Paul Brecher. All you need to do is email him for free. Then you could spend £10 or £20 going to see him for a chat. And you can do that anytime. And before you come out with something like 'oh i would but i havent got £20 to spare', pm me an address for you and I will send you the £20 so you have no excuses not to go. Then let me know when you have seen him and we can talk again. Until then I dont see any point in talking to you any more.
Shade I'm not sure who you might have annoyed-- you have been really reasonable. This has been something of a maddening thread, reading it start to finish, and your lack of hostility is commendable.
Just to weigh in. Maybe chi is a solipsism. If so, I've been solipsized. For those of us who DO believe in chi, the world is a richer, fuller, greater place. I won't even get into the whole argument about whether or not chi exists FOR REAL. It's like love. If you want to, you CAN explain it in terms of reproductive limitation, chemistry, biology, etc. But if you are in love, the explanation is as irrelevant as the name. LBR: I fully support your attempt to find chi in a form that you can credit and understand. If, however, you can't, it is extremely rude and ill-mannered of you to say, either directly or by implication, that those of us who have experienced chi are misguided or stupid. Shade and Syd: If you have experienced chi, great! Don't belittle LBR for being skeptical. I have read through this entire forum, and I have to say that it seems like both sides have departed from the spirit of scientific inquiry and moved into the realms of brow-beating. Don't believe me? Read back over your posts, especially your OWN posts, and see if you could have found less inflammatory ways to make your points.
My first experience of Chi was from my first Sifu, many years ago. After beginning class in the usual way, he started taking us through a series of slow, graceful movements. He offered no explaination, he simply asked us to follow along. I didn't understand what the movements were for, but they were very relaxing. Sifu said to imagine water flowing through our bodies, entering from a point below our navels and flowing outward in all directions, down through our legs and out through our hands. As we followed him slowly through the excercises, he told us to imagine our hands moving of their own accord, as if gently guided by invisible wires. After awhile, it actually did feel like our hands were moving all on their own. When we completed the excercises, he asked us all to hold out our palms, face up. Then, one by one, he approached and held his palms several inches over ours, face down. Each one of us felt the same thing. The first thing I noticed was a great deal of heat, more than the "normal" amount of heat you'd expect from someone's palms. Much more fascinating, however, was a sort of electro-magnetic sensation, similar to holding two magnets of the same polarities near each other. When he took his hands away, I noticed my palms were spotted in a rather peculiar way, and I felt a strange, "creaky" sensation in my fingers. I had never felt anything quite like it. It was only after each one of us had experienced this strange new sensation that he explained what it was. He called it Chi. Chi is a unique and unmistakable sensation. Anybody can experience this with very little effort. It doesn't matter whether you believe in it or not. It doesn't matter whether it can be proven or not. It doesn't matter if you can explain it scientifically or not. It simply is. That is enough.
Hi Coyote, yes i believe you, without rereading my own posts. I sat down to dinner earlier and thought about what i had said in some of my posts, hence the apology i made. It is all too easy to get carried away with posting on forums like this, and I readily admit I am guilty of this. All the same, my offer to LBR stands for the fare to London. I cannot provide the answers you seek LBR because I am very very new to all this. But someone like Paul Brecher has been studying and learning about the internal arts and all that they encompass for 20 + years and would be far better at discussing this topic with than I. It is not a cop out, just the simple truth. I hope you take me up on my offer.
I would accept that offer, but I'd prefer to wait a couple of weeks until I can pay my own way to London. I'll be sending an e-mail to him later tonight asking about it, and see what he says. Hpwever, I will be honest, a chat about it will not convince me because I am fairly mule-headed. It is one of those things where I need to see or feel proof in order to accept it.
Hi LBR, fair enough but the offer still stands so if you find yourself short of funds and want to visit him in town let me know. And good on you for admitting the mule headedness. Arent we all sometimes. I do hope that whatever response Paul gives you that it helps shed some light on matters for you. Even though you say you need to feel and see it to believe in it, hopefully he can provide something (that even if it isnt the proof of chi) that will be of some benefit to you somewhere along the line. I imagine that we could all learn something from a guy that has been practising MA for such a long time.
I don't think I was inflammatory at all. Infact I couldn't have been more about the spirit of explanation and debate, rather than the brow beating suggested. But I suppose when your outside the eye of the cyclone looking in, everything must look frenzied... I have been the calm little centre of the universe. Best, Syd
