Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by Spirit Reaper, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. hwardo

    hwardo Drunken Monkey

    But don't you see that when you make the claim that it "won't help his MA practice... won't even help his quality of life" without any practical experience, you may turn someone away from an amazingly valuable process. Further, When Li'l bunny calls it a scam because he or she hasn't been able to find it, it only points to a lack of knowledge on the subject.
    Look: Chi can be cultivated. I have done it. Millions of people have done it. It does not give you mystical superpowers, no, but it absolutely can benefit your practice, and moreover, it has changed my life.
    Science neither proves nor disproves chi, but to those who invoke science as an argument against it, you need to realize that science doesn't explain why we talk and make buildings either.
    If you don't "agree" with chi cultivation, than by all means, don't let me try to convince you. But what possible grounds could you have to run around turning people new to the subject off from it?
  2. Syd

    Syd 1/2 Dan in Origami

    To Bunny & Cpt

    I cannot open your eye's to the things you wish not to see. I've said everything I need to on this, I'd only be repeating and refining the same thing, be well.

    Best to all, Syd ;)
  3. Capt Ann

    Capt Ann Valued Member

    Because I've seen it taught and used to the detriment of others (not neutrally, as in 'maybe-this-works-maybe-it-doesn't, but to their own hurt.) And if there are scientific reasons why it isn't needed in MA practice, then the "newbies" don't have to deal with the ill effects and extra bagage that often comes with it.
  4. Shade

    Shade New Member

    Capt Ann,

    indeed, one could say that lack of experience is no guarantee of being right, either. I think it fair to say that I am not happy about people inferring something that I believe in to be rubbish, and that it should just be dismissed. How would you feel about me saying your relighion should be dismissed? I presume you are a Christian. To the billions of Muslims in this world what you beleive in is total BS. Doesnt mean it is though does it.

    LBR I am disturbed that you infer chi to be a scam. Isnt that like people saying CKD is a scam to make money (i am thinking about a certain Mr Koo here)? Also, forgive me if i choke on my have sought it out as much as you can....i read on another thread somewhere that you went to Tai Chi for 1 month. Doesnt seem like much seeking to me.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2003
  5. Capt Ann

    Capt Ann Valued Member

    Must go to work. Would love to stay here and argue some more (see previous post regarding occasional sarcasm), but I must go to TKD practice, then earn a living to pay for my Internet connection.

    God's blessings to all.
  6. Capt Ann

    Capt Ann Valued Member

    Shade, it's your right to accept or dismiss even those things I hold and believe most dearly. I will not think less of you, or hold you in contempt, and I will even assume that you have reasons for whatever belief/non-belief you have.
  7. Shade

    Shade New Member

    Capt Ann,

    no doubt you will be reading this later once you have returned from work.

    I dont want to or even like arguing with you. It is serving absolutely no purpose other than to make anyone reading this thread think "why the f would i want to join this forum, they all take pops at each other".

    I believe in chi. You and many others dont. Thats great.

    You believe in certain things and many others dont. Thats great too.

    As far as implying that it is wrong and perhaps even dangerous to introduce Spirit Reaper to something that he is obviously interested in (otherwise why ask the question in the first place) then I personally think that viewpoint is a bit stunted. No one is saying that he has to be shipped off to China for the next 10 years and live in a box on bread and water.

    He could simply start like I am doing by reading some books about Tao and chinese philosophy.

    No harm to be done by expanding his knowledge through these means surely. Otherwise what havoc have christian's being doing throughout the world for the last few decades tryignti get everyone to read the Bible?
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2003
  8. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    I can stand in front of you and show you how CKD works. I can work you through the principles and teach you. I can show you how the blocks block, how the attacks attack. I can teach you the drills. I can actually show you it in effect.

    With chi, you seem to be saying that not only can it not be taught or demonstrated, it also makes no difference and has no use other than to make people feel more content. Personally I'm happy enough as I am, which means that for me Chi would be useless.
  9. Shade

    Shade New Member

    Im not saying those things...that was Syd.

    And if you are happy as you are, why say you have sought it out and would love to believe in it? This doesnt make any sense, and again leads me to believe that you are just a troll.

    And i notice you didnt answer me from a few pages back when i said that I actually have not seen CKD in anything approaching an approximation of a real attack.
  10. zun

    zun New Member


    I wouldn't get into a discussion with LilBunnyRabbit (or his alter ego ckdstudent) - you'll end round up in circles.

    If he believes in it or doesn't, what does it matter to you or me? Nowt. Some things cannot yet be explained logically or scientifically.

    Consider ourselves most fortunate - we are aware of Chi, we are aware of what it can do - and how we can harness it for our benefit and others.
  11. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Just a troll? I'll let that slide I think. As for why I'd like to believe in it, its for the same reason that I'd love to believe in a religion, or miracle cures, or faith healing, or telekinesis, or magic. I'm human. If you can't understand that people want to believe in things, then there's no hope for you.

    Which has what to do with teaching Choi? Besides which if you really want I can throw a Choi punch, or any other art's punch, at you and it will hurt unless you dodge or block. That means it is effective. Now then, depending on which version of chi you happen to believe, there has never been an instance where someone who did not believe in chi has been hit with it, or healed by it. You don't need to believe in someone's punch for it to hurt. You don't need to believe in a bandage for it to stop blood spurting. Those are actual, effective things. Now if you can tell me that even though I don't believe in chi it'll work on me, and actually show me it working, I will quite happily believe you.

    As for CKD being in anything approaching a real fight, I will resist the urge to make the obvious comment. The reason I didn't answer you was because I really didn't see the point in your question other than trying to bait me. It's not going to work.

    I'm aware that if I send $10 to each of the twenty people on a list, I'll receive over $1000000 in only a week! I can harness it for my benefit, and pass it on to others.

    Now that's trolling.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2003
  12. zun

    zun New Member

    Yeah! It's called CKD!
  13. Shade

    Shade New Member

    Im not trying to bait you at all. It was a serious point. You made a comment that I would have seen CKD being used in an approximation of a real attack, and I haven't.

    Just throwing a punch at me isnt an approximation of a real attack. If that is what you truly beileve, and if that is what CKD is all about, then I think I am learning the wrong art.

    Please clear this point up for me as I have a grading on Sunday and value my £20.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2003
  14. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    Hmmmmm, what happened to the ki thread...
  15. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Unnecessary, wrong thread, completely off topic, and deliberately offensive. If you want to whine about CKD, go to the CKD thread, and try to do it once you actually know something about the art.

    Actually I believe my comment was that you'd have been shown the attacks and blocks, taken through the various drills, and shown the effects of the techniques. Whereas with ki, you are simply expected to trust that its there and that you are in fact developing it. Since everyone seems to be saying that the only way to tell chi exists is to feel it, my main point was that I was trying to show that in fact its not much use if you can't teach it.

    Plus, if you can't teach it, then these people running around charging money to teach chi are in fact no better than conmen. They may believe it, but if as you say they can't teach it, I don't see the difference.
  16. Shade

    Shade New Member

    No what you actually said on page 8 of this thread was

    and no i haven't.

    What should I have seen?
  17. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    A block against a punch or kick, thrown unexpectedly. Now you may not count that as a real attack, however you would have to concede that in a real attack people do throw punches, and sometimes kicks. You should also have seen infighting drills, which cover the most common violent attacks. Again, you may not count it as approximating a real attack, but you would have seen it, and hopefully should have seen that it works.

    Now show me one example of chi working, even in practice, on a skeptic.
  18. Shade

    Shade New Member

    Of course I concede that in a real attack people throw kicks and punches (unless its a head butting contest or something). What a ridiculous thing to say.

    None of the drills I have seen in a CKD class have been anything like you would get in a real attack though. Just my opinion of course.

    In what I would class as a real attack (having seen many in some of the biker pubs I used to frequent in the golden days of Bromley) the attacker never just throws 1 unexpected attack. They throw a chair, followed by a bottle, followed by one of their mates rugby tackling you to the floor, whilt the chair and bottle thrower does a dance on your skull.

    Now unless I have one of thise shields from class in my pocket, what am I going to do?

    Or what about the guy that doesnt just throw one punch, he throws one and keeps thowing them. And i block, but then its his turn to attack again, and i block again, but he throws another punch, or a kick, and im locked in a continuois circle of blocking his attacks?

    In class, what i see is you attack me and i block for a couple fo minutes. Then change over. Sorry, but that doesnt happen in any real fight i have been in or witnessed.

    As for an example of working chi, you will have to ask this of someone else. All I have said here is that I believe it exists. I havent said anywhere that I have seen it working. You must be confusing me with someone else.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2003
  19. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    And this is what happens. Yes, chi must exist, I believe it, but wait, if you want proof just ask someone else, yeah...
  20. Shade

    Shade New Member

    So go to Wales and see Erle Montaigue. He will show it to you.

    You have such a poor atitude, i am so glad you aint in my class.

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