Look at adrenaline, hysterical strength. Look at the massive injuries the granny lifting the bus sustains in doing so, even though she manages.
Absolutely CKD! Thats exactly what I mean, is it adrenalin, is it chi? Just makes for a good story with a lot of different viewpoints.
As a reminder, if you don't mind - I'll quote myself. Your response: The articles posted, especially from american scientist, answered your question beyond doubt: Sharks use electromagnetic force to detect their quarry. I'll reiterate - the articles were not posted to demonstrate a link between chi, electromagnetic force and sharks. Only to answer to your question that sharks use electromagnetic force to detect quarry. The article does not discuss the generation of chi, electromagnetism by humans or sharks. I did not say it is exactly electromagnetic energy. I said the best name I have heard for Chi is electromagnetism force. Eventhough it is not exactly electromagnetic energy, there is, however, is a correlation between electromagnetism of the body and chi. http://www.dallas.net/~matzke/papers/chiwater.html Bear in mind, that in regards to Chi, western science is approximately 2000-3000 years behind the eastern world. It is still catching up. Almost everyday new discoveries and theories about the human body are made. For example, western science is not able to explain nor measure hypnosis. Still though hypnosis miracously continues to work. I wish you would not use sweeping generalisation such as if it were electromagnetic force, then it would be possible to detect this.. this has never been achieved without proper references. http://users.med.auth.gr/~karanik/english/icmart/baltic/abstract/ab1.html Furthermore, you can amazingly witness the movement of chi as it is detected by an infrared camera on National Geographics documentary "Kung Fu: Myths and Logic of Shaolin Kung Fu". There are also demonstrations of the effect of chi, and explanation that many of the feats, especially over-flexibility (360 degree!), would not be possible without chi cultivation. Where are the photos of the fight? Please supply a link because I can't these photos on the web page I provided. Whether or not the old man is an old goit, he fought the King of Karate. A man who killed animals (cows, horses, etc) with one punch, who destroyed a muay thai fighter. The old man, old goit, or even as a young strong athletic man obviously has something magical to be able to defeat the king of karate with the killer punch! You surely don't mean to use having looked as the basis of you argument. Speaking to you as an intelligent person, please let's not drag this conversation into pure spectulation. I've provided links and references to back-up each and every single one of my claims. As yet, I'm still waiting for concrete evidence to back up your sweeping generalisations. Ouch! Dude! That was a little below the belt. I was referring to where you said, and I quote, Right, so I'll go to the local class.... Just a little cheeky and subtle reminder - maybe a little too subtle - that to find an expert (or even a good instructor) you might need to look further than your just local class. If you do not believe in chi, that's okay. Don't really care either way. All I ask is that you respect that there are many seasoned MAs, such as the Shaolin Monks who do, have experienced it and in many cases, is a basis for their external and internal MAs. Precisely. You don't. 1. Whether or not you provide the evidence; 2. whether or not the blindman believes the evidence; 3. whether or not the blindman believes the reliable sources; 4. whether or not the blindman believes in the principles of science (biolody, physics, etc); 5. whether or not the blindman can experiences colour; 6. Finally, whether or not you are able to prove it; this does not change the indisputable fact: colour exists. I'd be interested in knowing of your experiences of ki/chi.
Reliable source then, ain't he? Wonder how much he sells his tapes for. See above. Sounds to me more like he just wants to sell people his Vital Energy tapes for lots of money, and wants a way to justify it. So essentially, his high-tech chi measuring machine is to get someone who believes in it, and ask them if they felt it. Doesn't sound particularly reliable to me. Who doesn't feel better after a live concert? I'll leave the rest of the 'paper' for now. Deeply relaxive state in which the normal human inhibitions are repressed, including the normal restriction on following orders. People who lift incredibly heavy things or perform massive feats of strength under hypnosis often suffer from similar injuries as those who make use of hysterical strength. The state itself has strong similarities to being drunk, the voice that is 'you' is still present, but not as restrictive as usual, allowing you to be more easily persuaded of things. Note that they haven't measured the magical electromagnetic force emanating from the body to perform amazing feats of chi. There's various threads about both the fight, and the king of karate, on this board. That was also where the link to the photos comes from, I forget where it is off-hand. Ah, so Dr Khronos' mystical chi detection method isn't pure speculation? Well, I'm not going to mail you my collection of physics text books and other hard-copy resources, but if you want the titles and ISBNs then I'm perfectly happy to give them to you. I don't rely on the web for sources, far too many crackpots out there. I respect them for their achievements, which are just plain impressive. I do not respect the spread of snake oil as a cure-all. If you want, I can quite happily dispute that fact. Colour is merely a human interpretation of wavelength variation in the electromagnetic spectrum. From an objective viewpoint, colour is merely a handy concept, not something where the existence can be proven any more than the existence of, say, sentience in another person.
That's an explanation. Now where's the science? Measurements? References? FIne. Mail the forum your soft copy references. If you can't provide verifiable references from reliable sources, you're arguments don't hold upto scrutiny in the forum. Also, get some new books to plug holes in the gaps of your knowledge and experiences - especially with regards to electromagnetism and sharks! Ah. Now we're getting somewhere. As you respect their achievements, you must also be naturally aware that they attribute many of their achievements to chi cultivation. Never asked you respect them for snake oil (though Dit Da Jow comes close for martial artists). This is not a discussion about snake oil. Admittedly there are many things that the eastern science advocates that I do not agree with. In the same vein, science in the western world has been mistaken numerous times and is continously learning - often through exploration of other cultures practices. Chi and MA are definately part of the good things that eastern culture has provided. You can dispute that fact as much as you want. Actually please do. Because your aguments have been based on science, the more you work towards removing the credence of science, the more the rest of your reasoning falls down. Fantastic. NB. Everything is a human interpretation. Just as colour is a human interpretation, so is chi. And if you dispute colour, you definately can't accept chi. Again, I'll ask. You said you have experiences of chi. In order to promote a healthy on-topic discussion, what are these experiences?
Not really my field, ask a psychologist. I was simply answering your statement that there was no scientific explanation for hypnosis. Hardcopy, not soft copy. And if I must: -Atoms in Contact by B.R.Jennings and V.J.Morris -Quantum Physics of Atoms, Molecules, Solids, Nuclei, and Particles, 2nd edition, by Robert Eisberg and Robert Resnick -Electromagnetism 2nd edition by I.S.Grant and W.R.Phillips -Quantum Mechanics by Sara M McMurry -The Biomechanics of Sports Techniques, 4th edition, by James G.Hay -Basic Biomechanics by Susan J.Hall -Electromagnetic Fields and Waves, 2nd edition, by Paul Lorrain and Dale Corson -Thermal Physics, 2nd edition, by C.B.P. Finn -The Body Electric by James Geary -Fundamentals of Physics by Halliday, Resnick and Walker If you want ISBN numbers, prices, or places to buy them I can provide those as well. Firstly, that's technically biology, secondly I prefer New Scientist to Scientific American, its less sensational, and thirdly, once you've actually checked some of my text books I'll get some more to cover the knowledge you picked up from a magazine. And mystics used to attribute their effectiveness with herbs to nature spirits, now those herbs have been used to derive medical drugs. And often through actual experimentation based on those practices to see the reason that they work, when they work, or showing that they don't, when they don't. Disputing the existence of colour does not actually affect the credence of science, I simply said that colour is nothing more than a concept used by humans to describe the wavelength of light in the visible spectrum, in and of itself, colour does not exist. It exists purely as a measuring quantity, like fahrenheit or centigrade. However some human interpretation can be backed up by millions of other humans performing the same test and getting the same result, other human interpretation can't be. Ask a synaesthetic what blue is sometime. Maybe I should rephrase that. Non-experiences. Essentially every time someone has claimed to be using chi on me, for whatever reason, it has either failed, or been an application of biomechanics (posturing of the body and movement for maximum effect). I have no problems with peopl using it as a visualisation technique, its when people claim it has actual existence. May I point out that various institutes have offered large prizes for anyone willing to demonstrate any sort of mystical power under scientific conditions. So far none have been claimed.
And yet it works. Exactly the same thing with chi - no scientific explanation - yet it works. btw, I know too many psychologists, unfortunately. Page numbers please where, as stated in your previous discussions, they refer to and completely discount chi. You mentioned statements like chi has never been recorded - I assume I can find it in the above books otherwise provide more sources. btw, line numbers would be good too - would save me time ploughing through the above books. ISBNs would be kewl, so I can be assured I have the right book. If I am not able to locate it, I may need a pointer to find a bookshop that will supply it. Firstly it's not your field because it is psychology. Secondly your saying its not your field because it's technically biology. Thirdly, if it's not physics it's not your field, right? In which case, as I originally suggested keep an mind open and learn a new field Off topic. Not related to chi. Or if it works, they can't explain it (or get the explanation wrong!) If you're going to compare, please compare like with like. Compare colour with heat. Compare hue with fahrenheit and centrigrade if you must. For your next assigment, please dispute the existence of heat! Dude! You're getting your facts mixed up again, sort it out! Ok, so we're discussing a medical condition. How about asking schizophrenic synaesthetic person what red is? Will you always get the same answer, or will it depend on who you talk to? The above is based on conjecture. Where's the science bit? I thought you were a man of science. Science is derived from the human interpretation of repeatable and observable experiments. As I said everything is human interpretation. And this explains why science can be incorrect from time to time. Please define "claimed to be using chi on me". Are you specifying that someone used it as a weapon? Like someone tried to knock you out with it? This is not chi. This someone trying to demonstrate "empty force" crap, which doesn't work btw. What do you mean by a visualisation technique? What are your other experiences of chi? Chi is not mystical, just unexplained by science. The same with hypnosis. Please provide references to these institutions - names, website etc. I'm familiar with the work of James Randi. His work relating to chi is when people claim to manifest chi as some sort of telekinetic power. This I vehemently do not believe is possible with chi. Chi is not Uri Geller and Uri Geller is not chi! Chi, afaik, only manifests itself within the body, though the inductance of the chi can be felt a very short distance away.
I'm giving up on the science, you're either misinterpreting, misquoting, or just plain ignoring any arguments I've made. How exactly do you believe chi manifests itself then? I'm arguing against the mystical powers associated with it, healing, disabling other people on contact, the stuff this thread was originally discussing. If you're describing it as something purely within you then I've got no problem with that, as long as you don't subscribe to things like the belief that increasing the ability to turn your head by 1 degree a day will eventually result in 360 degree rotation. Basically, what are you saying that chi can do?
-CKD Student, I also have a physics background, though adittedly as my minor and more of an interest in relativistic astro physics. I do know that there is serious research that has been done with positive results in chi both at Stanford University and at UC San Francisco. Iknow this because I have read at least some of the studies. In fact, Stanford was actually seriously looking into creating an entire department dedicated to "Life Force Sciences" a couple of years ago. I honestly don't know what has happened with that project since then. -Also, this past weekend, I was at a semnar with George Dillman and he was saying (I have not read the study myself, yet) that there was a recent study done at a Canadian University that (Mr. Dillman said) proved the existance of chi. He said some of his people were involved with the study and they were able to monitor the energy with the use of equipment used for detecting earthquakes and that they were able to record emisions of chi that registered between .2 and .4 on the richter scale. Like I said, I have not seen this data myself (yet), so I can not comment either way, but I do know that Dillman and his people have been involved with several university studies over the years and have made positive progress in this area. I know that Mr. Dillman's penchant for the theatrical has a tendency to put off some people (and being quite honest, at times me included), however, he really has done a lot to advance the arts and during the times I've talked and trained both with him and many of his master-level students, I really believe that he honestly believes in waht he is doing and is truly trying to advance the arts. -Finally, some people around here are so opposed to the concept of chi/ki that I can't help but wondering if it is because it is out of their worldview that they blind themselves to the possibility. In a way it reminds me of so-called "Christian Scientists" who blind themselves to evolution so much that they will claim that all discoveries of man's ancestors were hoaxes and that all the Neandretal skeletons are merely "an old man with arthritis". Funny how the muscle insertions, ect. were not of homo sapiens then. -I personally do not believe all the claims made out there. I do believe that there is something out there worthy of further research. Aslo, if you trade the words "chakra"(Hindu) or Go dai (japanese) for endocrine system and chi/ki for the body's electrical system (nervous system), I think most educated people would be a lot more reseptive.
-OK, I just re-read my own post. Considering how many typos I had, it is definitely time for me to go to bed.
Aw, shucks. All I asked for were references. Science currently isn't in a position to fully explain this. http://www.artic.edu/taoism/glossary.php With regards to chi being used as empty force to knock opponents from a distance or persons who claim to use psychic force to bend spoons, levitate etc., I along with James Randi et al do not believe such empty force exists. Once a person has built up enough chi, they may be able to on contact transfer the chi to heal and destroy the other person. For instance acupuncture and acupressure is used to heal many debilitating ailments (mental and physical). The practioners using direct skin to skin contact or needles to transfer their own chi stimulate the stagnent chi of the patient. On the other hand, transfer enough chi on contact at points such acupuncture points, can kill. For instance Dim Mak strikes to the chest can cause commotio cordis (cardiac concussion). Chi, afaik, cannot be used as weapon beyond the immediate vicinity of the body. That is, beyond about striking range, say, .5 metres. Within very close proximity, it is possible to use chi disruption without contact to interrupt the natural flow of chi in your opponent's body. Chi manifests itself within the body and the inductance can be felt a very short distance away - ie within arm length. Though we may not all see chi, chi as reported by many on this forum, is tangible. This inductance or aura of chi can be directly felt. Can chi be used as a weapon? Definately. Can chi be used as a weapon from a far (like a gun)? No, imho. Can chi be used to self heal? yes. Can chi be used to heal others on contact? Yes. Can chi be used to heal others from a far? I don't know. Whether chi can be used to rotate your head - I don't know. Chi can be used to strengthen and enhance flexibility to allow limbs, such as the leg, to complete a rotation. btw, be aware that some contortionists can rotate their head by 360 degrees. Beyond a strong pugilistic effect, some of the effects of chi (through chi gung exercises, internal martial arts, etc.) follow. Improved immune system http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030922064321.htm musculoskeletal, e.g arthritis http://www.arthritis.org/resources/arthritistoday/2000_archives/2000_07_08_taichi.asp I had started writing a list, as above. There however is a website that's already done this. http://www.krapu4.com/taichi/research/tairesum.htm References quoted are on the website. The smoking thread shows that someone was able to quit smoking simply through acupuncture treatment. (unfortunately forum is screwy so not able to retrieve the name. I'll update asa it works) http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6287 Taiji was developed greatly in Wudang mountains by the Taoist. As the abbots and nuns are searching for eternal life (immortality), they believe that chi and taiji are part of the elixir. From: http://www.artic.edu/taoism/glossary.php Enjoy and spread the chi, dude
How you explain the universe is up to you, though I'll wait until I see a single piece of evidence for it before switching. Until that time I'll stand by the theory I've seen tested time and again. This is something that I want to see. Many people have offered, and tried, to demonstrate it to me, as well as at martial arts conventions and similar events. So far none have suceeded. Guess I'm chi-repellant. Debatable, I prefer to stand by the psychosomatic effect theory for this until it works on a sceptic. It certainly failed miserably on me. A correctly timed, judged, and placed blow to the rib cage can quite easily put someone into cardiac arrest, whether or not you're using chi. Its one of the ways that medics sometimes try to use when they've not got paddles handy to deal with someone who's suffering from a heart attack. Again, if this is possible, then why is it not taught more? You'd think a system that powerful and succesful would have spread throughout the world by now. Or at least be confirmed by evidence, other than purely anecdotal, and yet none of this has shown up. Once again, this is something that people have claimed that they are using on me, to no effect. Quite impressive, however neither an indication of chi, nor something that you train into. For something like that you need to be born with a skeleton deformed in ways that allow it. As for the health effects of chi, you'll find the same with just about any gentle form of exercise, particularly those designed for the elderly. Yes, and I know people who've quit smoking by just giving up smoking. Just because one person believes that acupuncture has given them the willpower to quite doesn't mean it has. And if some of them have achieved it, where exactly are they?
Fine. Interesting that creationist scientist use the same argument. Offered what? Did what? Which martial arts conventions? Where? When? Who? How? Why? What? Be specific. Until it works on a sceptic? You may prefer to use psychosomatic effect theory, whereas many more qualified doctors, researchers, scientists, experts and organisations disagree. See previous post for links to sources. btw, you've countered you're own point with Psychomatic effect theory. I'm still waiting to know in detail your experiences. You've mentioned the chi experiences numerous times in past posts and here. How about more details??? I'd like to seriously debate chi in greater detail with you - however this is only possible if you fully relate your experiences of chi. Otherwise, stop hiding behind these said experiences. So let me get this straight. So medics sometimes use correctly time, judged and placed blows to the rib cage to put someone into a cardiac arrest when they've got no paddles handy ????? *sigh* You getting your facts mixed up again. It's funny though. Have you forgotten that todays society is results driven? If results of a system are not producable instantly, society tends to looks else where. Chi, Taiji and dim mak takes too long for the average MA to use effectively. The most valuable things in this society are also the the most difficult to obtain. Diamonds. Gold. They need to be earned. A miner will not easily grant access to his mine. Yet many a would be gold miner stops just short of discoverying gold. Finally, Taiji is the most practised (and popular) martial arts in the world. What are they doing exactly? Please provide verifiable references, sources where this is claimed. You've overlooked the research performed by scientists listed in my previous post. Who said they had achieved it? They are still searching, however, I said they believe chi and taiji are part of the elixir of eternal life. Now you are providing purely anecdotal evidence. Who do you know who quit. How? When? Did you perform a clinical trial? This not just willpower. It surpressed the cravings. Something science nor hypnotherapy is not currently able to fully perform. The effect is repeatable. http://www.chclibrary.org/micromed/00036070.html You've overlooked or not fully researched the evidence provided. As a scientist, you are supposed to look at the entire evidence and remain unbiased until evidence conclusively proves otherwise. Beyond your own experience, which you are to fully outline, you haven't disproven that chi doesn't exist. James Randi and co, state that they can disprove empty force techniques, and this is the reason they do not believe in that. If you were to say, "Chi doesn't work on me, but I'll remain open minded because science has not been able to prove or disprove the existence of chi." This imho would demonstrate an open minded, intelligent way of thinking. All the health claims I've listed are backed up by references - many with clinical trials performed by highly qualified scientists, well respected organisations. As you look farther beyond your immediate set of experiences, you'll become truly aware that chi exists.
No creation theory has ever really been tested, since the effects of a creation can only be observed. Even if we could create our own pet universe it would not be 100% proof since it may not be the same as our universe. However, the theories that I am referring to deal with the present, and can be tested in the here and now. Not really. There isn't really any fact, anything can be disproven, something you seem to have missed by saying that chi is a fact, despite the evidence ranged against it. When I refer to something as a fact, it is because it is something testable, that has been checked and verified time and time again. However that's not to say that tomorrow someone will work out a way to send information faster than the speed of light. Well, there goes every environmental program on the planet. Oh, and education. Medical research. Astrophysics research. A large portion of weapons research. In fact just about every kind of research does not produce instant results, and yet people devote their whole lives to those. As for dim mak, there are various threads on this board concerning the subject, you might want to check those. Out of. The shock to the heart interrupts the rhythm of pumping, effectively the same method as using the paddles in the first place. You are simply hoping that the new rhythm you shock the heart into will be the correct one. Advanced emergency first aid. If you had read through your own link, you would have noticed that it did add at the end that they believe these immortals dwell in the heavens, on mountaintops, and in other isolated places. Seems like they conveniently put themselves out of people's way, don't you think? Some people have claimed similar effects from hypnotherapy. And aromotherapy. And simply quitting. And accupressure. And massage. And taking up a new hobby. What's your point here? The same applies to pain relief, and curing certain ailments. Research has actually suggested that belief aids health, especially when indulged. Fine. Chi has not yet worked on me, nor have I seen any evidence of its existence or found any satisfactory theory for how it works. When I find evidence, or it works on me, I will believe it. When a satisfactory theory is developed for it, then I will do my own research until I am satisfied with the conclusion. Firstly I said that the health claims were genuine, and did not in fact disagree with them in any way other than to say that just about any gentle exercise has similar effects. Exercise makes you healthier. Wow, breaking news. Taiji is exercise. Stunner. Secondly, if you are referring to the studies by Dr Khronos, I hesitate to call someone who sells audio tapes as effectively 'bottled chi' a respected scientist.
You've gone slightly off-topic. The argument that creation-scientist use is they will wait until they see a single piece of evidence for [evolution] before switching. Until that time [they'll] stand by the theory [they]'ve seen tested time and again. The evidence is there, they just obstinately refuse to believe it. Just presenting that this is the same argument that creation-scientist and yourself are using. Firstly, Chi hasn't been disproven. If there as much evidence ranged against it as you claim - where is it? Despite my countless requests to present your references and sources, all you've presented is your opinions, having looked/seems arguments, false assumptions, conjectures and sweeping generalisations. Where is the evidence? Secondly, psychosomatic effect theory is a just theory. Just as "nothing can travel faster than light" theory. It's a scientific theory not fact. For example, it was until relatively recently when science theorised that the atom was the smallest object. Again, science had to alter their theories. Thirdly, whereas certain facts may hold true generally. At certain levels, those observable and testable facts may no longer hold true. For instance, behavior of the sub-atomic particles cannot be fully described by Netwon's Laws. Just because you refer to something as fact, it does not mean that it holds true all the time. As a percentage of the population, how many do you think are doing the above kinds of research? How many study astrophysics? Advance medical research? etc. Furthermore, there are billions of dollars available to these individuals and organisations. For instance, in astrophysics, there are organisations such as NASA, ESA, military, For medical, there health organisations, goverments, drugs companies. For education, many are forced to study by the government or otherwise would have dropped out! Also, how many of these individuals research the above, purely for their own statisfaction - their own benefit? Most do it as part and parcel of their job. MA doesn't have the same resources or investment, the same goals or the same selfish all-conquering-to-be-first desire anything like the above sciences. Unlike standard education, MA is not a requirement for life. The government does not force you to study MA until atleast adult age. You must compare like with like. When you do, you'll find that more people individually study the secrets of chi and ima. However, many of these secrets, such as dim mak, can not be revealed until the advance techniques are mastered. In any MA, this takes a very long time. Furthermore, because not many are skilled in such techniques as dim mak, there are fewer available to teach. Thanks for the pointer. However, do you actually follow any of own pointers? If you had, you would have noticed, that I have already participated. Gawd. Can't believe you've used seems as the basis of your argument!! Christian monks seek solace in the same way. In pursuit of one own's own goals, ambitions and desires, one seeks to minimise distractions. Ultimately same goal/effect. Different method. For instance, hypnotherapy removes the reason - the basis behind the habit, such as stress-relife, and not the cravings. Without the basis, the habit gradually dissapears. Though the cravings remain, without the basis, are easier to physically and mentally overcome. Accupuncture and accupressure both directly suppress the nicotine cravings. You are aware, are you not, that you are making anecdotal claims in fields that is, and I quote, Not really your field. What research? Where? Sources dude! Yes, the placebo effect is amazing. I presume placebo doesn't work on you. Do you believe in it? Or perhaps you do - otherwise, you wouldn't make the above claim. How does science explain the placebo effect? Not that you are aware of. When you fully and independently re-examine the evidence, you'll find that chi has worked on you. As you look carefully around you, you'll be automatically aware that chi works with you everyday. LOL! Good that you've agreed to move from a heavily opposed viewpoint against chi to now a neutral stance. Like most things in science, it possible to discuss theory ad nasuam. However, experiments and demonstrations are the foundation of science. Therefore if you are truly interested in discovering chi, I suggest you actively seek out a highly respected teacher in the fields internal Martial Arts. There are many highly respected teachers and I'm sure many here will kindly suggest someone should you ask nicely. In this respect, may I suggest you actively seek out Erle Montaigue. As he's recently moved back to the UK, he should be available either at a workshop in Wales or a training seminar not too far from Surrey. Ask for a demonstration of chi disruption or even a dim mak strike! Bzzt. Nil point. Another sweeping generalisation. Exercises are not all the same. There are cerebal exercises (maths puzzles, crosswords, mensa tests), military exercises, etc. which is the not the same as physical exercise as you purport, nor solely do they provide same health benefits. Each exercise improves upon a particular feature. For instance - military exercises is designed to improve field combat. In the same way, not all exercises are the same! Taiji and chi gung exercises are designed to improve chi. As you agree that the health claims made by the reputable papers are genuine, you'll be naturally aware that the papers find that benefits are particularly attributed to chi generated by taiji. In some instances, the patients were not able to perform any exercises, gentle or otherwise, previously. No problem. There are plenty of other scientist/organisations who I'm sure you will agree are independent, highly qualified and well respected - and have nothing to sell.
You're the one who brought it up. Firstly, I have actually presented my sources, it just looks like you can't be bothered to work through and read any of them or learn any actual science, so there's little point me going into more detail on it. As for the false assumptions, all of my assumptions are based either on personal experience, or evidence. What're yours based on? The evidence is all around you, just learn a little of the scientific method. I note that all of your sources are either simply statements that taiji aids health, which I don't dispute at all. Yes, taiji aids health. So does yoga. And so does aerobics. Or some sort of 'weird science' such as writing chi into audio tapes, which you haven't actually addressed at all. Please stop ignoring my questions in favour of simply saying 'no, you're wrong' and actually give me a reason that I am wrong. Try rereading it and actually spotting the sarcasm. There was no argument there other than that by definition these monks with magical powers are putting themselves out of reach of the rest of humanity, conveniently avoiding anyone wanting to check if their skills are genuine or rumour. Firstly, Newton's Laws are approximations. Secondly, they still apply on the subatomic level but due to the near-infinitessimal masses their effect is massively outweighed by the effect of nuclear forces. If chi showed any reliable evidence that it worked, then they would do. Bear in mind that British Rail have done research into dowsing, and many other companies have followed similar paths. So far the research has been at best inconclusive, and normally simply disproving the claims of the mystics involved. Never knew nicotine cravings were due to chi blockages. Well, we learn something new every day. Christian monks don't claim to be immortal, or to be able to affect other people's souls from a distance, or even with a touch. The comparison is minimal. Actually I was simply trying to point out that there are differing views of exactly what Dim Mak is. Many people do not think it involves channeling your spiritual energy into other people to kill or injure them, but think it comes down to the fact that dim mak points tend to be nerve clusters, or weak points in the body's makeup. Yes, I believe that the placebo effect works for people who believe in it. Or at least that they believe it works. See where this is going? As for how science explains it, that depends on exactly which context you're asking in. Where I actually stood from the beginning. My actual original argument was that electromagnetic force is a disastrous and misleading name for chi, since the two are not associated in any way. An argument which you provided 'evidence' against with Dr Khronos' miraculous paper on generating chi with an electromagnetic wave generator, and writing it to analogue audio tapes for later use for people, incidentally only detectable by humans and not by any objective method. Would love to, the chi disruption at least. I have no desire for someone to tear out my throat or crush my windpipe with mystical magical pressure point techniques involving slamming hard blows into vulnerable parts of the body. There's no need to be deliberately obtuse. Exercise in this context fairly blatantly refers to physical exercise. Try using common sense. Actually I've yet to find any such papers. I've simply seen ones that basically boil down to exercise = good. Unless you're talking about newspapers, which firstly do not subject themselves to scientific peer review, and secondly are neither reputable nor reliable sources of scientific information. Yep, there are plenty of mostly objective research organisations. Now show me one which endorses chi.
*Andy stabs knitting needles in both eyes, pulls out his finger and toe nails, then rubs the bloody ends with birdseye chillies. *Make it stop
It won't stop. It's the power of their Chi-it's gone into overdrive. It could take us all with it Captain, she cannae take it!
