Kenpo for the Cage

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by dbmasters, Apr 16, 2006.

  1. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    As much as those made me chuckle, the useful info is that "cage fighting" is another term for Mixed Martial Arts (MMA), AKA "ultimate fighting". Surprised you've never heard that expression before.
  2. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    You and your considerate informative're like me a year or so ago. Bah....
  3. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    Funny, I keep thinking how much you're like I was four years ago.

  4. bbygirl

    bbygirl New Member

    how bad does cage fighting get ????
  5. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    What do you mean by "bad"? The techniques allowable are typically punches, kicks, knees and sometimes elbows on the feet, usually some "ground and pound" (strikes on the ground), most takedowns, sweeps and throws, locks against the major joints, and some strangulation techniques. Typical fouls include bitting, gouging, hair pulling, striking the groin, attacks to "small joints" such as the fingers and toes, headbutts, spitting on an opponent, and "spiking" someone on the top of their head. Most fights these days have manditory protective gear: cup, mouthguard, and small, fingerless gloves. Typical injuries are cuts, bruises, broken bones in the face & hands, and concussions, which typically occur when someone's been knocked out. There are also the occasional freak accidents of knees being hyper-extended, shoulders being dislocated, and severe rib injuries, usually as the result of a slam. Despite all of this, no one's ever died in a sanctioned MMA event, and rarely do you have a single career-ending injury. It's actually safer on the brain than boxing.
  6. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    You need to ask? I thought the pics I posted spoke for themselves...

  7. Kenpo_Iz_Active

    Kenpo_Iz_Active Greek Warrior-not 300

    pretty interesting stuff, especially coming from a grappler (?).
    i also didn't know Ed Parker held a belt in judo.
  8. Kenpo_Iz_Active

    Kenpo_Iz_Active Greek Warrior-not 300

    don't forget Pride and K-1.
  9. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    *shrugs* I got 7 cop friends who say different. I also have seen many a bar fight hit the ground. I prefer to be prepared in all ranges, than just allow ignorance in one and just assume I'll get lucky and it won't go there.
  10. Kenpo_Iz_Active

    Kenpo_Iz_Active Greek Warrior-not 300

    good point, good point.
  11. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Here's one for you KempoFist. Long time ago, but not so long ago that UFC wasn't around, one explanation for the lack of ground fighting training in Kenpo was this:

    This was followed by various techniques, probably all of which you have seen in one form or another, including knees to the head, the dropping elbows to the spine, brain stem, or other vital area... the hammer fists to the head, eye goughes, etc. Whatever the flavor of the day was.

    Now it is true that you can knock out someone, hurt them badly, or control them so that the fight effectively ends before or when it hits the ground, rather than continue on from there. There are verifiable cases in competition and in the real world where someone has been knocked out by a knee to the face when they tried to shoot in.

    What I have noticed, and this is where I ask your opinion on this KempoFist, is that it seemed a lot of time was actually spent in learning how to hurt someone that is trying to take you down, but there was very little to no time actually working on take down defense. The ones with Judo, wrestling, or other applicable backgrounds in grappling and such had decent if not great takedown defense... then the idea of hurting the opponent so much that they can't continue to fight when it goes to the ground seems to make a lot more sense. Does this make sense to you?
  12. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    A noteworthy goal. One that is much easier said than done.

    Interesting goal as I stated above, and one that is accomplished more today than ever IMO. Back under Pride rules, we had numerous fights being ended with knees to the head to turtled and side mounted opponents. But the reality of the necessity of grappling takedown defense (not try to hit him as hard as you can before you get slammed onto the ground) has taken grip, hence why you see guys scooping for underhooks when someone tries to clinch rather than trying to elbow him in the face.

    Personally, my gameplan is too unrefined and I'm simply not good enough to give you a knowledgeable opinion on how effective each mentality is against each other, but one thing I do know is that without a solid grasp of the fundamentals that go into the clinch, and the subsequent ground game, you are leaving yourself open to drift up ***** creek.
  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Good post KempoFist.

    I did not have any particular direction I wanted to go with my questions, but something did spring to my mind reading your post.

    We have certainly broken down fighting to almost a science with game plans and strategies. Now, how much of a game plan deals with one's personal abilities?

    Grandmaster Ed Parker was said to be a very agile person. Very quick and with training on top of that, it would have been very difficult to take him down. We could say he had good take down defense, but it is more than skill it was natural ability too.

    So KempoFist, I present another thing asking your opinion. How do you deal with "freaks of nature" (respectively using the term). BJJ, Boxing, Karate, MMA, Judo, Kenpo, etc. all had/has some individuals that were way beyond just skill in their abilities. If it was track and field, I could say that not everyone can run under a 4 minute mile, right?

    Consider this, Mr. Parker was very agile, many that followed in his footsteps were no way like that. Some very big and with knee problems, unable to move that quickly with the legs. They had to create their own versions of Kenpo that worked for them.

    Just some thoughts.
  14. Kenpo_Iz_Active

    Kenpo_Iz_Active Greek Warrior-not 300

    yea, true. i.e., my form of Kenpo emphasizes low kicks to the knee, highest the groin. let's face it, high kicks aren't as effective becuase the can be easily dodged or worse, manipulated. BTW, i have found knee and elbow srtikes very effective becuase they are strong bones, and also because they are useful in short-range fighting. (in other words, you don't have to waste your time extending your arm to punch.)
  15. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    I agree Kenpo Fist that we should try to be prepared in all ranges,but by choice in a bar fight i would not choose to go to the ground,and if i went down would fight like hell to get back up,rather than attempt arm bar to triangle to oma plata combinations(gret for competition).

    Does anybody here practice against,multiple armed atackers?,weapons such as ,pool ques,chairs,stilleto heels?ashtrays? or to use such type of items?,the use of the enviroment we are in is as much of a study for us as is using our natural body weapons imho,after all banging a head on the floor,wall,bar,or table has more potential power than any punch/kick etc we can develop :)
  16. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    To expand a bit on the above. IME, the better martial artists tend to choose the best courses of action based on opportunity and situation. A point to make about this is that they also choose what not to do.

    For instance, oma plata is a great technique, however, not many would try to use it on an opponent that is much bigger and stronger than they are. The difference is that inexperience often leads to trying things and doing things that probably should not be done, such as trying to work an oma plata on someone two hundred pounds heavier and stronger. Experience can make a lot of difference in not just what is done, but also what is not done.

    Sounds like Aikido to me :love:
  17. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Aikido! lol :)
  18. KMA

    KMA Valued Member

    I have seen a Kenpoist use his Kenpo techniques in a full contact ring fight. This was an amateur match with the Ultimate Combat Experience.

    He used a variation of Charging the Ram (That's what Parker called it.)
    It was the only move he used, because he knocked the guy out in the 1st round, about 5 seconds into the match. While I do think this shows Kenpo can be effective in a sport MMA match. I also think it’s the fighter that makes the art effective not the style.

    The problem with most of Kenpo is that it's not very sport friendly. There are a lot of elbows, eye gouges, groin kicks, and friction brakes.

    The reality is every fight is different. The Kenpo techniques are motions nothing more. It’s taught in a set position to show how this move could be used. That doesn’t mean it will work exactly that way with a real opponent. I also agree that the theory of most street fights going to the ground is bunch of B.S. I have never seen a real street fight go to the ground.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2007
  19. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    Competing is a personal choice and many times its ego oriented, i competed in TKD many years i didnt want to but the school i went to where my friends and they always had a good way to put pressure on me if i didnt compete, i was quit good in sparring and it was full contact.

    In competition no one wants to look bad and it can get ugly real quick, can the respect and the ego.

    Or sometimes they mix weight division togheter so a much bigger guy will hit you a lot harder.

    I respect people that dont compete and want to keep it in the dojo.

    After all full contact is not for everyone.
  20. Steve Banke

    Steve Banke New Member

    [ame=""]The Chronicles of Scott: John Passarella MMA Fight TKO - YouTube[/ame]

    this is a 2 month old fighter at Powell's Way of Kenpo in his 1st MMA fight.

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