This might seem like a stupid question to you, but hey, I'm a kung-fu person. What's the difference between kenpo and kempo?
They did... Perhaps this might help: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22099&highlight=kenpo+kempo+difference Matt
Or perhaps try: http://www.all-karate.com/kenpo_karate.php http://www.urbin.net/EWW/MA/KF/ http://www.etauntonkenpokarate.com/ http://kenponet.tripod.com/flame/articles/faq.html#d I found these (plus about 50 more just like them) within 5 seconds of typing in "difference between Kenpo Kempo" at google.com. I think the point was that your question could have easily been answered by yourself. Of course if your question was more specific (what's the difference between Chinese Kenpo and Japanese Kempo) then you might get some useful conjecture. Just my opinion though. -Sting
So What is the Differance between Japanese and Chinese Kempo? Isn't Kempo pronounced Chuan Fa in Chinese?
Good Stuff... http://www.tracyskarate.com/FAQ'S/KENKEM.htm http://www.tracyskarate.com/FAQ'S/kenpo_mean.htm http://www.tracyskarate.com/FAQ'S/CJkarate.htm
Goodness gracious Such irritation over a simple request. Was it such a crime to ask a "kenpo question", on a "kenpo thread", on a "martial arts site". Maybe he thought since we were kenpo practioners we might have an interesting answer to his question. Those were some good links though.
If I remember right, Kenpo is how it is actually spelled and Kempo is how it is pronouced. So they are the same and either spelling is acceptable.
Using the current method of romanisation, kempo is the correct way of transcribing it. It is true to say that there are no separate hiragana or katakana for m/n. But there is a grammatical rule that changes the sound when vocalised. Basically if n/m is followed by po the sound is more of an m. Earlier methods of romanising the text worked with a miss hearing of the correct pronunciation. This is similar to the Jujutsu / Jujitsu misunderstanding. I think American Kenpo have kept the incorrect translation because it has some way of identifying them from other styles of Kempo. I believe their use of Kenpo dated back to a miss print in one of Mitose’s books. Chaun Fa is only the Chinese reading of the kanji used for Kempo.
While this is the commonly advanced explanation, and is even true, I think it misses the natural evolution and development of the two lines of kem/npo. In general, people who spell AND pronouce their art Kenpo are practitioners of some variety of Ed Parker's Kenpo. He trained, briefly by our modern standards, with WKS Chow. Ed Parker was a very pragmatic fellow. He wasn't very interested in a great deal of philosophical "mumbo jumbo" and felt that the purpose of his martial arts was for bludgeoning people about the head, shoulders and various other anatomical locations of ready availability. He had a huge influence on the arts, particularly in and about the area surrounding that mecca of all things astounding, Hollywood. He had a number of descendants in the arts, and a greater number of friends. After his death, his school orginization broke up into somewhere around 10ish distinct flavors (and many more sub-flavors), the Tracy's being only one of several. Some famous kempoist or other is perpetually trying to reunite the various systems, and to those of us OUTSIDE KeNpo, it looks much like the Roman Catholic church trying to "reunite" with the Protestants, and just as unlikely. In any case, KeNpo tends to be fairly physical in its outlook, and focuses on mastery of a large number of techniques for a wide variety of situations. Physically very simililar to KeNpo, KeMpo tends to differ primarily philisophically. KeMpo schools tend to be focused more on individual development, skill attainment and philosophical meanderings. KeMpo tends to have a more limited skill set (although individual instructors have been known to expand it right back out again). KeMpo schools are also frequently descended from WKS Chow, often with a distinct Mitose flavoring--although many are trying to deny their Mitose roots these days. KeMpo schools tend to adhere more to a Chinese heart. KeMpo schools also tend to emphasize simplicity, and are usually more willing to reabsorb material from other arts, like Tae Kwon Do kicking and Jujitsu (in its entirety). This, of course, is not universal. I've been to KeMpo schools that were definitely parkerized, and KeNpo schools that were as philosophical as you could possibly imagine. very respectfully,
I don’t know that I would agree with you on some of those points, but then I don’t know much about American Kempo. I do know that most western people think American Kenpo when referring to Kenpo/Kempo. From your perspective I could see how you may view this within the context of the Kempo/Kenpo being taught in America, as there isn’t much scope to view other systems unrelated to those you mentioned. I study a Japanese system that has no relationship with any of the styles or people you mention, and I’m fairly certain the only physical similarities would be superficial. It is certainly a philosophical style, and a registered religion in Japan. But it is very pragmatic, and the training is application based. As for depth of technique I won’t get into a yours is bigger than mine argument, but it is extensive. The effectiveness of our techniques have been demonstrated on the streets of Tadotsu post WW2 where Kaiso and his students fought with the Yakuza and finally drove them from the area. We do have a Chinese beginning as Kaiso lived and studied there for many years, but the system is very Japanese. I don’t know about adhering to simplicity though, we do have simple effective techniques, but as you progress the techniques require more skill and perception, especially the juho curriculum. Just by your post I can see the importance placed on branding in America. You have very defined perceptions of what is Kempo, and what is Kenpo. It is important to create a clear reference point and I understand your need to keep Kenpo as the marketing image that identifies what you do. Your paradigm may still apply in America, but internationally I think it may erode. Just in Shorinji Kempo alone there would be about 1.5 million people that would believe your description of Kempo systems to be inaccurate.
I think people got the right answers already in this thread, but one point is that today it is hard to tell what something is just by the spelling of "kempo" verse "kenpo." I know of Hawaiian Kempo that is in many ways modern and yet "Kempo" is often thought of as the original spelling for older systems. It is not so clear these days. I went back to an older book from 1983, "Martial Arts Traditions, History, People" and looked things up. It seems things were more defined back then... Okay, so the book goes on about Parker. Not much was said about Kempo in that section of the book because there are other sections in the book on different styles of Kempo and Shaolin. There are sections on Shorinji Kempo, Okinawan Kempo, etc. so there is a lot more about kempo in the book that I did not bother typing. As a side note, I teach Kajukenbo, which is sometimes considered a style of Kenpo, but is from Sijo Emperado who was a disciple of Chow like Ed Parker. The "ken" part of Kajukenbo is for kenpo. As some may know, the "ka" is for Karate, the "Ju" for Judo/Jiu-jitsu, the "ken" for kenpo, and the "Bo" for Chinese boxing, although many like us also include Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and aiki-jitsu/aikido in the JU, and American Kickboxing, Boxing, and Muay Thai in the BO.
Actually, I was being quite general--and yes, somewhat specific to the US, with the full knowledge that there are all kinds of exceptions. If I recall corectly, shorinji kenpo is a branch of kenpo related to Mitose's branch (if you believe Mitose). And both major branches, in America, tie back into Mitose. However, when speaking of KeM/Npo most keM/Npoists know that it is a term almost as general as karate itself. So, however it is spelled, it can encompass a great deal, and be quite contradictory at that. I never identified which I do, by the way.
Yeah, it was. Reminds me of the time I asked Patrick Strong (a student of Bruce Lee's, trained >30 years at the time) what he was doing. PS: Practicing my punch. BN: What, you don't have that down by now? PS: No. Do you? BN: Ah. Touche. I find that most profound concepts are the simplest, and the most basic questions the most difficult to answer well. There's nothing wrong with repetition, and particularly nothing wrong with going over the basics, again. And then again. And then about another thousand times after that.
Shorinji Kempo is in no way connected with Mitose, or for that matter Parker. It is a product of Doshin So's experience in Shaolin Chaun Fa, and in particularly the Ihermen-thuen or in Japanese, the Giwaken school. Shorinji Kempo is a re-systemisation of Doshin So's total experience. I’m also very sure Mitose never studied it either, as I believe he left Japan before Doshin So was repatriated. I haven’t seen much of what you guys do, but what I have seen is quite different to us. This is not meant to suggest inferiority just that it is different. His claim would be easy to prove if needed, as WSKO are meticulous with their records. I understand that you were being general, it was just that I thought your remarks were true within the context of America, but people with little experience with these arts needed to realise that there are a number of forms of Kempo not related to America, and not fitting the models you described. I think a truer model would be if it is Kempo it may have links to Japan, while if it is Kenpo it will have links to America. That is about as far as I would generalise on a global basis. While American Kenpo/Kempo is very popular in America and other western countries, we should be aware that there are a lot of Kempo systems around that have no relationship to them and should not assume that the American experience is representational of them all. We should also expect that these systems may be very popular among other nations, and there popularity may rival the American systems on a global level. Sorry if I assumed wrong. I wasn’t sure which style you belonged to. I thought that you explained the necessity for Keeping Kenpo as a name well. After reading your post I better understood the need for a clear identity. Before I though it was just a bit odd. But reading how the American systems are so clearly definable in regards to philosophy and technique I could see how they would not like to be confused with the other. I had no problems with this observation; I just thought it was not accurate on a wider level. In particular I thought it could cause confusion with regard to Shorinji Kempo because we are a registered religion, and the philosophical side is very important. Anyone reading your post may have thought that you were referring to us. I didn’t want people to mistake the importance that we place on effective techniques and training methods. Shorinji Kempo’s popularity in Japan (most popular art) has come from its effective self defence techniques.
Shorinji Kempo was not developed until 1947. So I guess you could say it is modern. I don’t believe the Japanese ever called their Kempo Kenpo. It is true we did, but only because we didn’t listen to what they said, and our transcribing methods lacked accuracy. I think it really is just a matter of who and when the transcription took place. Wether it was transcribed by a Japanese or European, the mistake could have been easy if they lacked a good understanding of the others language.
