Kempo, Kenpo, Karate and Kung Fu

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Apr 28, 2007.

  1. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    And what does that have to do with Ke?po or it's foundation of training and techniques?

    Yes I am. I have gone from the biggest Ke?po nutrider you could have imagined, to what you see today. The reason for this is because the more I look into the history of Kempo, and the more I realize completely antiquated and unrealistic training methodologies that many/most schools stick to, the more reasons I have to be against it.

    The entire style is something that was a good idea, and a work in progress, that suddenly everyone declared themselves masters at, and started just awarding themselves belts, titles, ranks, and starting their own organizations and sub-styles. All the while, the vast majority of them were completely clueless about fighting, harping on about how their teachers fought using it, and how it's street tested from Hawaii to Okinawa to even ancient China.
  2. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    If found his definition of Kung Fu as interpretive dance a bit off the mark... by several thousand miles. I don't no about the other Kung Fus but WC forms are not dances.
  3. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

  4. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Kempo schools for the most part claim to incorporate "5 Animal Shaolin Kung Fu" which amounts to them taking Animal forms, watering them down so they look more like a Shotokan Kata with sweeping motions, and then claiming to do Kung Fu.

    I wasn't really taking a jab entirely at all of Kung Fu, but just found that to be a funny zinger. One of the guys I train with at TD's is a Kung Fu instructor, and I have a lot of respect for him, as well as one of the head mods over on Bullshido being a Kung Fu instructor, as well as an MMA fighter.
  5. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    Fair enough, it's just as bad in the Karate world unfortunately.
  6. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    I don't know about you, but when I am fighting, it definitely looks like a dance... a dance of destruction :Angel: . In all seriousness though, I agree, not so much dancing...
  7. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Hi Kempofist,

    The reason I singled out the 3 or if you like 4 that I did and then commented regarding others being similar. They really are closely related it just depends on the various schools and which particular root/limb they are training in.

    In todays world of MMA we see more Muai Thai and boxing (which form is anyones guess) we see a form of Judo (Judo Gene bunchs any of the ground and pound together) We can call in Chin Na if you like. Many different arts are out there. But the ones that are in this thread are simalar and have been confused about as much as any I am figuring.

    Chuck Liddell is saying his stuff is Walter Godin based (had savate in it).

    I have read that it came from the orient when the ships went there and returned to Europe. The Boxer Rebellion was all about Kung Fu folks rebelling.

    The five animals are not something taught in the Kempo I am familier with (Kosho) They are taught in the Kenpo of EP Sr. though.

    If you confuse the cage fighting with the strict tournament fighting or competition, it is different. Boxing is different than wrestling and so forth.

    JKD is different than FMA but not if it is called Kuntao...Pretty similar in some respects :D

    I believe you should take a class from Pat Kelly Sensei, you would think quite a bit different about Kempo of the Kosho group. I believe.

    Another reason I am not interested in a belt, to many opinions of what is what and not enough knowledge as to what is what.

  8. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    This is true of SKK, not Kajukenbo. Nor, EPAK from my understanding.
  9. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

  10. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

  11. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    EPAK now is not EPAK, it is every body who trained a little and now call it ED Parkers Sr. stuff which it is not. LOL
    The AK of EP Sr. was Kenpo, as in a take off of others teaching in a new package and mentioned to be original, which it was not. It had a good new language which was original that is for sure. But if you interpreted the name of the moves that were in Japanese and Chinese it was just borrowed.

    Tracy's has a combination of the AK of old and 5 animals. will fill in some blanks or confuse you more.

  12. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Kempofist, just so you know if you look into the arts of FMA you will find they have it all, from striking with the empty hand to healing, "Hilot". With weapons and grappling...It is worthy of your investigation, I'd suggest you check out this site and location.

    Good stuff...

    This is some history of the man and his story.

    Those who go to FMA always incorporate it in their teaching. Kajukenbo has it in it, but they deny much because...oh they just do... :D It was Sijos familial art, Hmmm :rolleyes:

  13. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    When did Kajukenbo ever deny the FMA influence?
  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    They have not denied it. You and I both understand the fact that it is in there, but to what degree is debatable. I thought I'd throw that out in the ring of words.

    Karazenpo is a player also and so was Johnny Leoning. He was from a different familial art though and so was Sonny. Why the differences that are in the various arts, plus you have the Chinese influence and Okinawa.

    To what degree is anyones guess.


    Kempofist for you...

    Last edited: Apr 30, 2007
  15. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    I don't think Sijo has ever denied anything about FMA in Kaju. His step father was a escrimadore. Even though I don't think Sijo was "formally" trained, I think it is an underlying influence though it isn't incorporated in the name "Kajukenbo." There is a significant amount of gunting - especially in the original method. Also the angles that we work fall down the line from most stick work.

    Where Original Method falls short is in the actual application with the weapon. I know that many have picked that up, myself included, and added it into our practice, but the curriculum as taught at Palama was lacking in that aspect.
  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Funny you mention gunting (sissor) for it is very important in the arts of kenpo and kempo and of course FMA. you also see it in Motobu.

    Very handy and effective in many applications.
    So if it is in FMA and it is old where do you think the art came from Kenpo or FMA??? :D

    The hand slapping arts of Northern Luzon. Is a good location to observe it I am thinking. Cannibals, axes, knives and swords. Bows, Arrows and Gunting.

    Gary :D
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2007
  17. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Here you go again. I think his post was pretty clear about where it came from. The cannibal aspects of Kajukenbo also came from the FMA arts.
  18. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I'd say you are correct, the basic difference is a mentality that is very old and unique.
    Same with the different thoughts of where Mitose came from, the Japanese and the Filipino are very different in culture and progress.

    One has had a very fine culture for hundreds of years the other one was still practicing Head Hunting at the turn of the 20th century.

    Good book I just ordered it the other day. Northern Luzon head hunters I already have.

  19. Rabu

    Rabu Valued Member

    It all seems like advertising to me.

    Moses Powell had a great quote:

    "yeah, he looks pretty, but...can he fight?"
  20. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Which art are we advertising? Being in many fights I'd say I would prefer at this age and time to just train the way I want to, not the way others think I should.


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