Kbs #13

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Ferran, Dec 13, 2006.

  1. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    Something is puzzling us at the dochan: does anybody know why you change position at the end of KBS 13? It would be much more direct to put "Uke's" arm against your left, instead of switching.
     
  2. GetNtheGame

    GetNtheGame New Member

    Are you asking from the photos in the textbook? No change. Camera angle.
     
  3. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    I don't have the textbook, I'll have to check. It'd explain something, though. And it's one of the reasons I prefer drawings, specially since we're in black.
     
  4. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    I've noticed one discrepency in the book, though. Unless you spin when you throw your partner, they should land to the outside of your leg with the planted foot. The book shows your opponent laying by your inside, next to your planted knee with the arm locked over the top of the other leg. Personally, I like to lock the arm over my shin, forcing my partner to roll over on to their belly. I feel like this is a safer way to finish the technique, since they can't counter with a strike, kick or grab with the other hand.

    You might want to ask hwarang_cl to chime in. I've seen him pull a nasty KBS13 on a friend :cool:
     
  5. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    That's an option. Not BTB, though. I like it, and I'm always tempted, from previous experience: it adds control. However, if you're "in a hurry", it's probably better to strain & kick, as in the book. Personally, I prefer things that end with the defender confortable and controlling than techniques that leave you a dead/unconscious attacker, but that's my frame of mind, not exactly 'martial' (it's also the luxury of living in Spain, with a particular threat level).
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2006
  6. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    For the follow-ups, I'm going to quote from one of my favorite movies , "They're not really rules, more like guildlines." As you progress through the curriculum you'll find that some techniques have similar endings and different follow-ups. This is to give you as many different options to finish a technique. They are not set in stone, if fact KJn doesnt test the follow-up, Just as long as the follow-up is appropriate and flows well, it's all good; In tournament as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2006
  7. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    I can only think of one reason and that is safety. If you are quick doing the technique, i.e. able to grab with right hand and pull the person's arm across your left leg before they contact the ground, then the fall could break their arm.

    I do the technique with no stance change after the kneel, but I give my partner time to fall safely. I usually finish with them stuck in an armbar. They can't really hit very well with the other hand because it would put too much pressure on the armbar. They need to focus on breaking out of the armbar first.
     
  8. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    So when performing the technique, do you put more emphasis on the pull, palmstrike or knee butt?
     
  9. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    My feeling is that if you can't make the person fall without the palm strike then you have the technique wrong.
     
  10. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    The palm strike is simply there to "help", It's not the primary technique, though I'd say the majority of students don't know what the "technique" is.
     
  11. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin


    Its not a pull, more of a push. The palm strike is, I dont want to say last resort, but a last resort measure to get your partner off balance. The throw, since KBS are throwing techniques, is with your left hand. You need to lock your partners wrist by grabbing their hand and pushing down and out/away. The lock looks like, when you do fingers towards each other push-ups. And if done correctly, meaning fast, you can break their wrist.Oh and reason I said this..
    is because the book doesnt really show the lock, you can see it if you look carefully at picture # 2.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2006
  12. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    Not neccesarily, the reason why they land on the inside is because they should go straight down/collapse.
     
  13. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    I don't see how this lock really matters. To me the whole issue is timing. Most of the mistakes I see are because the person waits to too long to make contact with the oppenents knee, and don't pull on the way down into the kneeling position.
     
  14. XMan

    XMan Valued Member

    Interesting. I must admit I have never seen it done where they go straight down. I agree you could make it happen, I've just always seen it with them going over the knee.

    Now, after the "throw" I have seen some re-position (pivot) their stance to bring them inside their stance.
     
  15. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    So the hand position is similar to a gooseneck lock like in kwan jul ki #5, with the palm locked towards the forearm? I can barely see the lock in the book, but that's what I'm getting out of the picture. Have you tried the "push" part of the throw using a side wrist lock, like in kjk 2? I wonder if it would be as effective.

    Now this is an aspect of the throw I've never really given much thought to. So you pull on the way down to a kneeling position, huh? I've tended to push/pull after I've knelt, while I'm bumping the knee and palmstriking at the same time. I can see how unbalancing before kneeling could make the technique more effective. I'll have to pay more attention to the timing and see what I can come up with for myself.
     
  16. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    My leading knee touchs the opponents knee way before the rear knee touches the ground. To be specific I aim for Yang Kwan (GB33) slightly above the opponents knee with my leading knee. This means that I drop in on an angle into their knee. If I wait to bump knees the point of contact is determined by our relitive sizes.

    My leading arm not so much pulls but instead remains firm so that as I kneel my elbow won't bend. Doing the technique this way utilizes your body weight and the momemtum of your whole body as opposed to dynamic strength of your appendages.
     
  17. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin


    Add a wrist lock to that, and you have a wicked technique :D
     

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