Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Andy Murray, Feb 24, 2002.

  1. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    I think that's how you spell it. I saw a TV program about this Indian art once, and have seen little else. The style looked ancient, like the early Shaolin fist forms, and I wondered if there might be a connection with the Bhoddidarma story. Interesting use of weapons as I recall.

    Anybody know the system at all?
  2. Pablo

    Pablo New Member

    A web search for kalaripayat or kalarippayattu
    or marma adi should yield results. There is a decent overview article in the CyberKwoon archives.

    As far as the transmission from India to China, there are interesting similarities, and glaring differences. The pressure points of marma adi are based on the chakra system, instead of meridians, and some of the Indian weapons, like the lathi, have techniques that appear to be straight out of European fencing.

    Kalaripayat has been around so long that I suspect we could never get a total view of its true history.


  3. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Thanks Pablo, I'll look into these. Anyone in the UK know anything?
  4. NielStewart

    NielStewart New Member

    Some research I did shows there probably is some connection between Kalaripayat and shaolin kung fu and it can be argued that Chinese martial arts actually have their roots in India.

    Da Mo, also known, Bodhidharma, Bodhitara, P'u-t'i Ta-mo, Da-mo, Bodai Daruma, Damo, Tamo, Dot Mor and Daruma is said to also have been proficient in Kalaripayat (an ancient karate-like art that was influenced itself by vajramushti or Thunderbolt Fist intriduced by the Aryans),

    (The “Aryans” or “noble ones” is a term formerly used to designate the Indo-European race or language family or its Indo-Iranian subgroup. Originally believed to be a group of nomadic tribes, the Aryans were part of a great migratory movement that spread in successive waves from South Russia and Turkistan somewhere in the early centuries of the second millennium BC)

    The Aryans took the spiritual techniques of Indian religion and combined them with the Pancratium (a cross between modern boxing and wrestling and was also called pammachion) and called this new synthesis Vajramushti, meaning Thunderbolt Fist. (Legend has it that Hercules himself won victories at wrestling and the Pancratium).

    Whilst including some weaponry, Kalaripayat did include weaponless forms that were practiced in conjunction with the controlled breathing techniques of pranayama.

    Da Mo is often reputed to have written the Yi Jin Jing “The Muscle Change Classic" otherwise known as "The Change of the Sinews” or “Book of changing tendons” and the and Xi Sui Jing "The Marrow Washing” or “book of washing bone marrow”.

    Some sources say that monks later transcribed these; others claim they were already written and secreted in the temple walls to be found years later. However, the basis of these works, the physical drills of which are called Shihpa Lohan Shou, or Eighteen Hands of the Lohan (or 18 hands of Arhats), were incorporated into the Shaolin martial arts training of the times.

    Lohan is non-chinese terminology for the disciples of the Buddha or the enlightened. Arhat transmuted into Arhan and from that into Lohan. The Arhat are the guardians of the scriptures. Of the eighteen Lohan, sixteen are said to be of Hindu origin, but the origin and identity of the remaining two are obscure.

    Contrary to this evidence that martial arts originated in India, is the legend of Huang Ti (Huangdi). Huang Ti is said to have reigned from 2696 to 2598 BC in China and it is believed that as early as 2600 BC he taught his troops a form of self-defence and organized them into effective military formations. (Notably earlier that the Aryans are credited with created the basis for modern Martial Arts). Huang Ti is also acredited with writing the "Nei Ching Su Wen” or “The Yellow Emperor's classic of Internal Medicine " the basis for traditional chinese medicine.
  5. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    The true origin of martial arts is well known, Zimbu the monkey was the first to develop a weapons form, using a rock. The first unarmed form was developed by Gargle, the lungfish, and was the art of ramming.

    In all seriousness though while tracing back the origin of martial arts is interesting you'll never find the true origin, history is simply too well obscured by deep time.
  6. NielStewart

    NielStewart New Member

    I think you perhaps misunderstood my post. I was not putting forward a theory of the beginings of martial arts, I was just putting forward information and theories that exist with reference to an earlier post.

    To understand the development of martial arts - one has to first define what a martial art is - and what it is not and the difference between martial arts and fighting.

    Fighting was quite simply born out of a self preservation instinct that resides in 99% of animals. So it probably was Zimbu the monkey who was the first to develop a fighting advantage using a rock, only becoming a martial art after he had taught others and had legions of rock hurling Monkey friends.

    What differentiates fighting from martial arts? now thats the question.

    If fighting was born from self preservation, then it will have evolved the world over, so the next interesting question is why china, japan and korea arguably provided the right conditions for the evolution of most of the martial arts we see today.

    I agree with you regarding the history and origins of martial arts, history (and word of mouth) have obscured events so we will never really know. Even though prominent authors (normally backed up by a 55th dan mastership in 5 different arts) tell us otherwise.
  7. NielStewart

    NielStewart New Member

  8. Tseek Choi

    Tseek Choi Banned Banned

    Hi Niel good to see you here.

    Master Paul Whitrod of Chow Gar Southern Praying Mantis teaches Kalaripayat in East London, as well as his regular SPM and Xing Yi Quan.
    try www.paulwhitrod.com I don't know if it's still a valid link though!

    Last edited: Aug 27, 2002
  9. Jim

    Jim New Member

    I agree with the above but the spelling was incorrect.

    The correct spelling was X'mpu the monkey and his legion was called the startled redhands. Gargle chose a passive life after the UFC (Underwater Float Combatives) banned her for unauthorised use of a fin while holding air.

    All a bit of fun really.


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