Karate England: The saga continues (to go downhill rapidly)

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Moosey, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. Genro

    Genro New Member

    Well, Moosey I wish everyone was as appreciative, I just cannot understand how very evil,yes evil some people can be regarding my groups sponsorship for the English team. I have seen ems stating my so called motives for the sponsorship that could have been written by Adolf Hitler. I will state again my group paid for the squad,officials to fly to Finland,their accomodation and supplied the track suits and T-shirts all for a total in excess of £25,000 WITHOUT any strings or contracts attached. I received unanimous thanks from all the team and officials and yet a certain Karate "politician" has made the most outrageous claims that I was "buying the board" and throwing money at everybody to achieve my ends, its very interesting that this man did not dip in his or his associations pockets to help, but enough negatives lets move on to better times.I don't have a crystal ball but I have my own logic and rationale re the future of English Karate. I believe there is definite "grassroots" revolution to find a permanent solution for organised or as I call it polarised karate. Forty years ago the needs of karate were very easy to understand and it was a sellers market with very few styles and little choice combined with a dictatorial administration that resulted in a take it or leave it attitude. These days its a buyers market, you have hundreds yes hundreds of organisations going head to head for an almost static market that has to compete with every "flavour of the month" martial art.
    I think that the fractionalisation is now the biggest problem to overcome as its always difficult to please ALL the people ALL the time. Plus on top of this you have a very wide differential in skill and the unique factor of martial arts......the grading system,which with the current KE policy of allowing each affiliated group to handout its own grades has caused many problems so in theory you could hold 4 widely differing grades in 4 different groups which makes for bad politics.
    I believe karate students/instructors should practice karate they are NOT insurance agents,marketing officers,CRB agents or development officers. This is the burden of present day karate.
    I personally believe that Karate whether Sport, Traditional/Classical or any combination should be under one roof,the only difference is that every student should be able to select his options by buying a sports licence or a Trad/Classical or an overall licence covering ALL aspects of our discipline.
    As to the future of KE, what can I say ??? It cannot carry the burden of debt it has and it would be kinder to all parties I think to "terminate it with extreme predjudice" and lets all move on. Maybe next time I can expand on the future..............anyone got a crystal ball.
    Terry Wingrove
    www.cyberbudo.com
     
  2. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Jemima? :confused: I get back from a few days in the field... Love the brackets around 'deserved'. :D I can see where you are coming from with the grade situation but personally I feel that experience is the relevant issue. I would call Terry the 'old man' of English Karate but I can still remember the last time he had his hand on my throat. :eek: Oh - I just did. :bang:

    Thanks for putting your viewpoint forward in your own words Mr Wingrove.
     
  3. Youkai

    Youkai Valued Member

    From the KE website:

    THE BOARD REGRETS TO INFORM ITS MEMBERS THAT DUE TO ITS DIRE FINANCIAL POSITION IT HAS TODAY STOPPED TRADING AND CALLED IN BEGBIES TRAYNOR (CORPORATE RESCUE AND RECOVERY) TO ADVISE ON THE LIQUIDATION OF KARATE ENGLAND (2005) LIMITED. WE WILL DO ALL WE CAN TO MITIGATE THE EFFECT OF THIS SITUATION ON MEMBER ASSOCIATIONS AND THEIR MEMBERS AND WILL MAKE A FURTHER ANNOUNCEMENT SOON.
     
  4. Simon Keegan

    Simon Keegan Valued Member

    There's some updates to the Karate England sinking ship saga on cyberbudo, while you're at it there's a great video of Wingrove Sensei in action called The Indestructables. Here's the link:
    http://www.cyberbudo.com/mediacentre/media_centre.htm
     
  5. Genro

    Genro New Member

    I believe this saga has a long way to run as all parties jossle for attention on the public stage. On one hand you have the existing board and set-up of KE and on the other the disgruntled karate ka/members and former members of KE,it is almost open warfare as each group seeks to justify itself or vilify the opposition depending on your point of view. One thing for sure the gap between the two groups is getting wider everyday as the gloves come off and the claims and recriminations are stated openly on forums and ems to anyone who will listen.
    I have been really surprised at the serious bad feeling and vitriolic accusations that are openly stated by all the parties concerned and it borders on open hatred in some cases. I think this has obviously contributed to "muddying" the waters even more.
    Without a doubt the existing board of KE has a lot to answer for with regard to where vast sums of money have disappeared and for what reasons ? A main contributing factor I believe to the distrust of KE's management is the lack of information to the members particularly the poor website which has only contributed to the negative conspiracy theories and fed all the pessimists righly or wrongly. It is essential that members get information good,bad or indifferent as fast as possible. The poor efficacy of the website certainly wasn't from lack of funds as it notoriously cost £16,000 just to switch on and 10's of thousands to "develop". the first thing I did on getting involved with KE 8 weeks ago was to set up a new website which cost £9 and 4 hours work for my excellent webmaster Aaron Milan-Vega(nidan Goju-ryu). I asked everyone to judge for themselves between the form and content of www.karateengland.org.uk and the new one www.karate-england.org and it didn't take Einstein to see the £9 had been well spent. As I continued to work at KE's offices it became clear to me how complex things were as the lack of transparency by the board plus the poor financial management made it a case of having to justify actions taken moths ago with little or no proof. In this I think the board realise they were their own worst enemy as no matter what they say now a different slant and interpretation is being put on it by the disgruntled opposition.
    I think another contributing factor is the almost revolving door of staff and executives over such a short period many with their own agendas and certainly some with an agenda that did NOT include the best for KE.
    Now the gloves are off and as I have said on many forums and on my own website the biggest priority as I see it is to separate the organising of an umbrella organisation(if thats what English karate needs and wants) and the long and intense autopsy of how KE failed. The first priority as I see it, is up to the sole wishes of English karate-ka whereas the second priority is the world of professional forensic accountants,lawyers and maybe even courts.
    One thing for sure there will be few winners but many,many losers before this matter is put to bed finally.
    Terry Wingrove
    www.cyberbudo.com
     
  6. milbilly

    milbilly New Member

    One thing for sure there will be few winners but many,many losers before this matter is put to bed finally.
    Terry Wingrove

    The losers are the rank and file members, The egotistical self interest of the Board and those people who have been involved in the setting up of KE along with the manipulation of its destruction (including the use of the press instead of member consultation) have left a sour taste in the mouth of rank and file members. Members have watched from the sidelines for many years and more recently watched the manuvering and posturing, crowing and self promotion with distaste. Its about time everyone involved realised they are only their because of the rank and file. ITS TIME TO GO !
     
  7. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Given the diversity of Karate styles in England (both within the Japanese, Okinawan and western groups), and then the diversity of the various groups within those styles, I do not think it possible for Karate England to survive as a standard setter for what is/isn't Karate.

    Personally I see the way forward for Karate England is to become an instructor standards body so that it is seen as a recognised kite-mark in England for a club where you are likely to receive good quality safe instruction, no matter what tyoe of karate you do. This kite mark would be given to clubs (not associations per se) where instructors can produce evidence of having a nationally recognised professional coaching/teaching qualification (eg NVQ or PGCE or BEd), a nationally recognised and in date First Aid qualification, Insurance and a CRB check. Karate England would also provide health and safety policies and child protection policies for its members and give sponsorship to competitors. I see the funding for this coming from an annual fee to have your qualifications recognised and possibly the profits made from running coaching/first aid qualifications and providing insurance (though there should be no requirement for members to use these instead of any outside agency). With the organisation filling this sort of role there would (I hope) be less scope for internal bitching and more scope for providing members with a useful service.
     
  8. steve Rowe

    steve Rowe Valued Member

  9. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I'm aware other organisations do it - my insurers (BNMAA) insist upon it. I can't see any other role though that would be acceptable to the majority of people. None of the current organisations actually have an industry wide reputation for ensuring quality that would be of use to a beginner.
     
  10. steve Rowe

    steve Rowe Valued Member

    MASA is recognised by the insurers (so you wouldn't have to got through the BNMAA) and it's standards are recognised by facility providers, local government and schools. With over 200,000 students in membership (try looking at the membership list) it's bigger than any governing body and is a non profit making industry lead body run by martial artists unlike groups like your insurer.
     
  11. steve Rowe

    steve Rowe Valued Member

    I was just having a long discussion with Jonathan Austin-Jones the barrister and policy advisor to MASA and we discussed the prospects of 'piercing the viel of incorporation' with liability for the directors of KE and what liability there may be for the members.

    Jonathan is to make a statement on the MASA website tomorrow evening, which I think you all (and certainly the Directors past and present on KE) will find very interesting.
     

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