Kajukenbo "The original MMA"

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Apr 16, 2007.

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  1. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Rolling without time limits is SPORT. How long do you think you'll be able to roll on the ground with someone in a real fight? Someone is going to either put the boot to your head or else you'll submit the guy in a few seconds. Rules, or the lack thereof are only one part of the difference. BJJ is not reality based fighting. Niether is boxing (as Muhamed Ali admitted when he said he'd get his ass kicked in a street fight).
  2. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    #1... I don't back peddle....furthermore: Kempofist: You started to say what I said, but then back-peddled because you didn't want to lose your ability to claim rights to dirty tactics.

    Are you alright? or are you off your meds today?

    Kempofist: You disguised it as a LEO vs Civilian issue, etc.

    I disguise nothing my friend, it is what it is, you are obviously showing your immaturity of age and lack of real world experience. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass how you feel about it or me for that matter.

    Kempofist: start really training real skills that translate into real ability at fighting,

    Like you really know about reality fighting, really? and what's your claim to fame? Gimme a break.... As far as sport fighting goes, I spoke to Tom about you a while ago. You have an open invitiation, I believe it's Wednesday nights, he has a fight night, anyone can participate and you can show your stuff instead of posting about it, right in Long Island and Tom is Kempo as you know, your favorite art, lol.
  3. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Bouncers? Ya, I worked the door before I was a cop and bouncers stay sober and deal with drunks, what's that tell you?
  4. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I'm not assuming anything of the sort. When I bounced in bars and worked concert security, that was what I saw. I'm not saying that MMA training is bad or wrong or foolish or a waste of time. What I'm saying is that the mind set is different. To train for bursts of agression and to defend against that type of scenario is more suited to what I've seen. I don't think being able to last 15 minutes in the Octagon is going to prepare you to take on Prof. Harper any better than what I'm talking about unless it's in a MMA contest. When you are attacked by someone that actually knows something about fighting, they are likely not going to give you warning. It'll be a sneak attack blitz. When you look at most of the real fights caught on security cameras etc., they won't resemble any MMA fight you've seen, but rather more what I'm saying here. Training anaerobically is not lazy training. It's the difference between wind sprints and a five mile run.
  5. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Okay Dan (T.), first of all, yes, some of my posts are long winded, I owe up to that, you're not telling me anything I don't know and why are they? because certain people will always pick up on something like I failed to address this or that and so forth so I try to touch all the bases, perhaps it's not even worth it, who really gives a f... anyway.

    Yes, I do sometimes repeat things and do you know why??? because after something has already been hashed out and discussed in past posts and/or threads, the same people pop up with the same garbage again asking for the same answers. That's why.

    I also feel like you pull the "I was a cop" card a lot.

    Wrong, because I'm still a cop, not was. Yes, I do bring it up and here's why! I'm really sick and tired (by the way, I'm repeating a former post only I put it nicely in that one).....I'm sick and tired of martial arts instructors who, it is clearly evident have limited if any real world expereince, making off they have all the answers to self defense situations, like they are the last word on the topic and put down everyone else when many if not most of them have never tested their 'theories' in serious situations in reality.

    As far as your post to Danjo, I also train for what I refer to as 'the ringer', not the 'smuck' or average Joe as you put it. I train my people the same way. This way, if the 'ringer' comes along, fine, he's the guy I trained for and if it's the average Joe, well, then that's fine too. I'm sure Danjo trains the same way.
  6. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    Which if you know anything about MMA training, you aren't running long distance anyways. Lots of sprints and pyramids. I think I run 5 miles once a week. The rest are 2-3 mile pyramids (30/60/90/120 second sprints with a 15-30 second jog between set for the distance of the course.)

    The fact of the matter is that I have the option to increase the pace, cheat, cheap shot, stand up, take it to the ground, whatever whenever I want to. I hold the cards. Not you. The idea that training in a short burst street fight senario is going to help you to last against someone who trains like me, or take it to its worst, Prof Harper, is rediculous. You wanna just be able to be average Joe (not Shuras wink) that is fine. Personally, I want to limit the numbers that can beat me. I am not satisfied in just thinking I will use my ninja skills to nut kick and run.
  7. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    I stand corrected. I know you mentioned training recuits. You still drive around in the car and get to drive fast and chase down the bad guys?

    Since Gary's thread is pretty much thrashed beyond recognition at this point, we should just take this down its natural path anyways. So as a cop, do you feel that you are being assaulted when someone runs from being arrested? Or the fact that you have a gun, taser, baton, ann pepper spray make you feel like a potential victim? Or maybe it is when the backup arrives and you gang tackle the guy running that you get your real world experiences? Or are you reporting to us some of the fights that you have shown up to and had to file a report on - domestic violence where wifes are beating their husbands?

    Just curious.
  8. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    LOL. Well, I agree to a point. If I ever see you or Harper coming at me, I'll take up running then. However, I do think that one should train for what is likely to happen 98% of the time than to worry about what happens when high-ranking kaju guys go bad.
  9. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    I can speak only for WHKD. It takes about 8 years with no prior experience to your black belt in WHKD. If you have experience in other arts, it is usually less, since it takes less time to learn the basics.

    After your black belt, it takes at least one additional year to get your 1st degree. The first year+ is a probationary period to ensure you are sticking around, still training, etc. After that, it takes 3+ years for 2nd degree, 4+ years after that for 3rd, etc. There are 10 degrees (with Sijo Emperado holding the sole 10th and Al Dacascos, the founder holding the sole 9th). The highest (beyond Sifu Al and Sijo) currently held is 6th. Most don't get past 1st.
  10. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Dan's always that way, it seems.

    Btw Dan, nice video. I also didn't realize you were so young; makes your rank all the more impressive (not being sarcastic btw, genuine props).
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2007
  11. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    Do you mean specifically in WHKD? Where does GM Sotelo fit in on that ladder?
  12. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    I got great genetics ;)
  13. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    We should do a video on that. Like when good pets go bad volume 2. Oh man. The pet lion...
  14. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    GM Sotelo is a 6th degree in WHKD, same as GM Eric Lee.
  15. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Damn your genes--I must now develop a gene splicing ray to take you down.
  16. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    I am just not sure how this all works. How would you refer to GM Sotelo if he came to your school? For instance, would he be GM Sotelo, or SiGUng?

    BTW, sometimes people think my mom is my sister. Crazy ****. Good Portuguese/Italian skin man. I got a lot of grey hair coming thru though from my dad's side. I had grey when I was 16. My beard is getting grey. Not sure if I should dye it or just let it go crazy old man silver and just tell people I got hit by lightning.
  17. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Well, when I see him or Eric Lee, I call them Sifu Teddy or Sifu Eric (respectively). In WHKD, Sigung is used to refer to your instructor's instructor. It holds no meaning of dan. Then again, I always call Al Dacascos Sifu Al--he hates being called GM, so I only do that when I want to irk him.

    As for the hair, go grey, and then do some crazy ass dye job on it that makes only the gray parts go blood red. That'll scare a lot of people.
  18. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Christ the backpeddling and moving of the field goals so to speak in this thread is astounding.

    First MMA isn't real because there's time limits that don't exist on the street. WAIT, no now my non-time limit training isn't real because street fights need to end quick!

    I get asked how many fights I've broken up. I answer that those I know who do break up fights don't want to fight me, and come to me for advice, and now all of a sudden bouncing isn't REAL either.

    We all agree that dirty tactics like fish hooking, groin shots, neck strikes, and eye gouges shouldn't be the bread'n'butter of anyones game plan, but now I get this about how training those things is fine because most people aren't skilled fighters and can be beaten with such low percentage childish tactics.

    Anyway, so Joe Tom says that he has an open mat invitation that I can go to? Sounds good. I'll call up a few friends, perhaps we may be able to expand the LITD to add in some kickboxing Kempo guys. I'll finally get to see if I can impose my game on standup fighters who actually fight with the goal of keeping the fight on their feet instead of the mixed sprawl and brawlers I'm used to.
  19. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    So you are part of Kajukenbo, but don't necessarily recognize the rank Sijo awards? Both Eric Lee and Ted Sotelo are GMs. I mean, unless they want to be called Sifu - dunno.

    I am not trying to stir the sh!t, well, not intentionally anyways. I just have a hard time understanding where WHKD is in Kajukenbo. You have different evolutions of Kajukenbo - being Original Method, Ch'uan Fa, WHKD, and Tum Pai. All with similar philosophy and the same head (Sijo) but expressing the style in a slightly different way. If we use Professor Bishop as an example, he is an 8th degree in Original Method, but even the Ch'uan Fa guys would call him Professor because that is his rank and title under GM Forbach under Sijo. If Professor Bishop came to your school you would call him what? You wouldn't call him Sifu. Why then would GM Lee and GM Sotelo be Sifu when they hold rank from Sijo that is 9th?
  20. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    I (and my students) would call Bishop Professor Bishop. GM Lee and GM Sotelo are weird exceptions in that they were promoted to the same level as their instructor by Sijo. At Kajukenbo events, I typically use the formal Kaju titles, as that is appropriate to the event. At WHKD events or more informal gatherings, I simply use Sifu, as per the WHKD culture we share with each other. When Eric Lee calls me on the phone, he says "hi this is Sifu Eric," for instance.

    As for the larger picture, to my understanding Sijo can grant rank to anyone in Kajukenbo, but the various styles each have heads that must approve rank in that style, namely John Loren (Tum Pai), Al Dela Cruz (Chuan Fa), and Al Dacascos (WHKD). Al Dacascos hasn't promoted Eric Lee or Ted Sotelo to 9th degree in WHKD, so they aren't GMs of WHKD--only Al Dacascos is.

    Hope that helps clear things up.
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