Kajukenbo "The original MMA"

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Apr 16, 2007.

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  1. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    You just hit it square on the head!
  2. GIJoe6186

    GIJoe6186 Valued Member

    I just want to say that when I was a white I tapped out an advanced white (9 months training) my first roll. I also had wrestled though and read BJJ books, enough to understand a rear naked choke. I also have tapped out blues as a new white. Not much but a few times. One time as white, I tapped a purple. Once and only once. I threw on a leg lock that he had no clue about. Never got him again. That does not make me better then them at all though.

    Just as in boxing or kickboxing, you cant win every one. Sometimes you get lucky or he is having a bad day. Or maybe you do something they have never seen.

    Danjo, you are the kind of person I was talking about before. You study Kaju. YOu also have grappling and other striking experience. Right? You spar? Doesnt this make you "alive"?

    Do you think you would be just as good if you didnt spar?

    What about if you had no grappling experience? Would you still be able to defend the takedown?

    So many people hate MMA fighters or people just training in it because they do what would be considered a TMA, but if you spar and grapple as you admit, your using the MMA style of training. YOu may call it something else, you may have been doing it before it was called MMA, but its still an MMA style of training.
  3. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    My mistake on a type o Danjo. I should have said Sr. I'll see if I can still edit that, Sorry.

  4. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    You are quick and very astute. Well it so happens he is a white person of Polish descent, as in Eastern Germanic. And just recently I believe GM Vincent (son of Angel) Cabales mentioned in one of the major MA mags that Bruce was the first non Filipino that was taught (this was in the early 70's).

    Thanks for the clarification. You were what, about 5 at the time? He is ranked in many of the FMA and Indonesian arts. I watched him give a good performance of the typical alphabet strikes of Kajukenbo, and he is good.

    Remember he was with Thomas Mitose for about 10 years...He is well versed that is for sure. You probably could make him tap though. :D Want me to set that up for you next time he is in your area, you missed him last time.

  5. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    First off, I never said I was at the level of a purple belt or a blue belt. You're putting words in my mouth. Second, I didn't practice on my students nor did I say that. I said I garage grappled. Did I tap out anyone yet? No. Why? Because 1, at Rickson's school I can only take private classes. They don't let females train in the group class. And 2, if you have actually had surgery, you would be scared of working out with people that are trying to hurt you. I had reconstructive shoulder surgey at 22. I'm 25 now. Think I want that again at the beginning of starting to train in a new style? No.

    But, I move well, which is what matters to me. I lose all the time when I garage grapple, garage spar, whatever...but, I'm learning. I have no problem putting on a white belt. You mistake me for someone that's not humble enough to do that. Hell, I was ready to take lessons from a Purple belt just because I believe everyone has something to offer. I'm lucky...Kron is my instructor...he's a brown belt. If I wasn't humble, I'd want to wear my black belt in there and be trained by Rickson himself. However, that's not the case. I don't think I'm the next superstar anyone. I'm just a white belt. However, I think after a year, I'll be ready to compete in BJJ tournaments.

    You honestly don't know me, so don't judge me. I have no ego when it comes to this game. I didn't even tell them I had experience in Kempo for 20 years. Why should I? It's not their art. I have no experience in actual Gi grappling BJJ. You know what? It's better that they don't know what I've done in the past.

    There's always an experience to gain, whether it's good or bad. An experienced instructor will never tell a student to forget what they've learned from another style...but rather to keep what they have so that you can build upon it. There's where you and I differ. I know better than to forget what I know from other styles. It may not be what I need in BJJ, but it may help me elsewhere. it'll give me a foundation when I move on to a different style. I may not like USSD or FVSSD, but I will say this...by studying the style, I figure out what is missing from it. Now I can add what I need to add.

    Here's a good way to look at Kempo...it's like going to college. You learn a little about a lot of things. Now, take the arts that are in Kempo and figure out what you want to specialize in...That's graduate school. Right now, I'm starting Grad School for BJJ...next, I'll go and learn Muay Thai...after that, Wrestling...and after that, who knows!
  6. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Hi Nuck,
    I'll follow it up.

    I am serious about John Wong. You should ask around Gary. He was pretty important. One of your inner circle buddies would know of him. Besides, if I told you, it wouldn't be as much fun for you would it? There are a lot of people in Kajukenbo history that have put in their time to make it so the rest of us can sit here and debate it in the luxury of our homes and offices. A lot of them are forgotten. There are some that remember and they keep those stories close. Most of those old guys are gone. Debating it now is probably not the most sensible time.
    I am not sure what you mean, but I have a good idea, and you might be right. For you anyway, me I am just a "Ronin".

  7. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    It's a bit difficult to hear someone in their early twenties talk about "the long run" as if he would have any idea what that meant. Look, you took and taught a crappy kenpo and have since concluded (based on your vast experience and years in the arts) that it is all crap and that everyone that ever studied or taught kenpo is either a fool or delusional. You say, "I know kenpo from the inside out." and yet I know men who've studied it for decades that wouldn't be arrogant enough to say that.

    I have no doubt that you are basing you opinion on your experience, but you should be cautious about generalizing at your age. 15 years from now, you might conclude that you were a bit hasty.

    You had a bad experience. Fine. But it is sour grapes to walk away and say, "Well, it was all crap anyways." Maybe what you had was crap, but isn't everyone's experience. And "yes" there are many of us who've had to actually use what we've learned for real hard as that might be for you to believe.
  8. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Sure. Tell Bruce to come on over and I'll wrestle him. I know that he jumps at whatever you tell him to do. Or is he the one that hangs up the phone on you?
  9. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    ouch...that one had to hurt.
  10. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Well, now we're back to Kajukenbo being MMA. The training methods we use, as far as I've been told, have been used for much longer than the UFC. "Bull in the Ring", continuous sparring with takedowns, free-sparring with knives and clubs etc. has been part of Kajukenbo long before the Gracies came to town, but since it's not BJJ mixed with Muy Thai, I guess it's considered crap by the modern MMA guys. Oh well.
  11. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Are you practicing "Reflective Listening/Reading" or did you not get the fact that I pretty much already said that in my previous post?
  12. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Ugh what a waste of my time. Guf you said, it wouldn't surprise you if Dan held his own or tapped out blues or purples. Based on Dan's experience, I'd say that's not putting you up as a very good judge of BJJ rankings no matter where you train.

    And Kron teaches out of a garage? He's Ricksons son, and after all this, he can't afford a studio, or he doesn't want one?

    Dan, you keep telling me I had a bad experience, but to be honest my gripe isn't with Kempo, Kenpo, Kajukenbo, Karazenpo or any other way you want to spell it. It has been and always has been about training methodology, something you have always butted heads with me about, leading me to believe you are either in denial or don't know what the hell you're talking about.

    And you want to belittle my age? That's fine. You're the one who learned purple belt level grappling moves from some Kempo girl who's barely older than I am. Not to mention the countless incredibly skilled fighters who are barely into their 20's, many younger than me, who know more about fighting than you and I combined.

    I don't need to LARP and crapple for 20 years to know that it's not going to get me anywhere. I also don't need to train for 20 years to tell you that doing compliant impractical lemon techniques on uke's is not the same as Chuck Liddell using boxing combinations to follow up his sprawl.
  13. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Or are you ignoring the fact that you never claimed to be BSing about that? You claimed that you tapped him outright, and even added a little remark about him saying "Dammit!" to ensure the fact was made clear that he didn't let you just do the move on him.

    No back-peddling indeed :rolleyes:
  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    And Guf is from the old school and how old are we in years and now a whitebelt.

    Danjo, you are so nice to the young one's, but us older, much more experienced and done so much more in life and MA and you just rag and call names, because you are a student of one who has done it, so you figure you are/or should be doing it also. LOL, go to various boards and call them liars. WOW...Guf you sometimes act as the budding adult, that you are, very young to have such a mouth on you. Must be a reason for it I'd say.

    Geez I am really havin a good belly laugh, even though I don't have much of a belly. You actually can post on SJK if you would not go there to be deleted, and have a thread deleted, which now they don't do they just delete you. That is sad really, why do you do it? You are really an interesting study. Also I see you mention you are telling the truth, what else are we supposed to be doing. Follow the old leaders? I don't think so :rolleyes: . I am not a leader, remember the term "Ronin" very much what I am I think.
    I feel that way most of the time, just a guest and learn and move on.

  15. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    Gary, he wasn't even referring to me! Just goes to show how well you're not following the conversation.
  16. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore


    Gary: [​IMG]
  17. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    ? Who taught me those moves? My grappling moves were learned from books, videos and from GJJ guys. We did grapple in the USSD, but we all just sort of fumbled about at it. I had some high school wrestling experience and some catch moves from books, so I did pretty well there. GJJ was a whole different world as far as grappling went.

    Look, right now you're in the phase that thinks what you are training is the be-all and end-all of fighting. You have a hammer and every problem looks like a nail to you right now. You abandoned a certain road of experience for another one. Cool. But it doesn't mean there wasn't more down that road that you left than what you experienced.
  18. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    He didn't let me do it. Think what you like, I'm not back-peddling. i should have cropped the post to show what part I was referring to. Essentially I was saying that I do not think that I grapple as well as a purple belt even though I tapped him once against his will.
  19. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Only the old trolls Gary.

    From what I saw of you in that video, your belly is plenty big enough for a laugh or two.
  20. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    First off, I said I garage grappled before I took lessons from Kron. He teaches at Rickson's school. He doesn't have his own school. That's beside the point. I'm a white belt. I don't have experience in BJJ ranks. You're right. However, I know Danjo can hold his own. That's why it doesn't surprise me. You're right, I'm barely older than you. I'm 25 going on 26. So what? Also, I never said I taught Danjo every submission he knew. I taught him maybe like 2 submissions as I learned them from garage grappling. I did a lot of drilling type deals with them. You have to drill in order for it to work. You'll at least recognize that fact.

    You'll admit...gi grappling is different than the latter. I've practiced Kempo for 20 years...doesn't mean I've taken lessons in it for 20 years. I took lessons in it for 16. My lessons stopped when I got injured...well, at least at USSD they did. That's when I started garage grappling. That was 4 years ago.
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