just curious

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by zakariyya21, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. zakariyya21

    zakariyya21 Valued Member

    What are the differences between Bob Breens eskrima and Doce pares?

    Anyone who knows thanks in advance.
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I think Pat O'Malley has trained with both extensively. Hopefully he'll be along to answer shortly.
  3. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Bob has trained in many systems including a few of the Doce Pares System so there are influences from them in his FMA. He is mainly inosanto Lacoste blend but also draws from other systems with the Doce Pares group as well as Pekiti Tirsia. Inayan Serrada and a few more besides.

    Trying to compare another style to Doce Pares is a bit more difficult than you would first think because Doce Pares is not a style it's a group with several systems taught within the group.
  4. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    With the European syllabus seemingly being over complicated.

    I feel something a little bit raw, as it would have been done decads ago would make it a much better system.

    I should say that I never completed the instructor course I was on, but I always felt there were over complicated locks and moves almost for the sake of it.

    Definately train in it if you have the chance, it is very good, but I've also done a little training with Bob and given the choice again I would go with him.
  5. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    I felt that with Doce Pares. I mean, if I had no choice...I'd still train in it, but prefer something a little more stripped down and direct. Doce Pares seems a bit flicky and twirly at times.

    If you are thinking of training them, try both and make your own decision.
  6. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    You see. Bit Flicky. Overly complicated. Again boils down to the system of Doce Pares being taught. As for the flicking shots in some of the systems. They are not meant to be flicks. They are actually meant if done correctly be powerful snapping strikes.

    It still amazes me that people think Doce Pares is a style. It's a group with several styles/systems being taught under the Doce Pares Banner.
  7. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Or a fake in order to draw a reaction ;)

    Also I like to think of a rapid succession of quick, 'flicky' (but possibly not knock out) hits being like a swarm of bees which overwhelms and distracts the opponent in order to set up a solid finish.

    One technique, multiple applications, FMA all over!
  8. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Then if you train in another system from Doce Pares those so called flicky strikes become very powerful blows each one causing serious trauma. In yet another system in Doce Pares you won't see them at all. So when people tell me they train in Doce Pares or try to compare Doce Pares to another system I say which system of Doce Pares are you talking about?
  9. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Exactly, that's why I said possibly... ;)
  10. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    I must admit I didn't know that about Doce Pares. Now I do.

    Is this it (from Danny Guba's page)?


    For many years and even up to the present people are still confused about the real Doce Pares system. This is only understandable because while the system is a conglomeration of various styles as introduced by the founding masters in 1932, there are many instructors and masters today who only teach a specific style of any one of the original masters. All the founding masters had their own set of followers and the students who chose not to study and cross-train in other styles naturally learned only the particular style of his own teacher.

    Doce Pares was a virtual supermarket of Eskrima styles, hence, there's the Larga Mano of Eulogio Cañete; the Espada y Daga of Felimon Cañete and Jesus Cui; the Corto Linear of Teodoro Saavedra and later on of Venancio Bacon, Delfin Lopez and Timoteo Maranga; the Corto Orihinal and Media Largo of Felimon and Iluminado Cañete; the Hirada and Retirada of Vicente Carin and Ponciano Ybañez; the Mano-Mano and Baraw of Maximo Cañete and Jesus Cui; the Corto Kurbada and Abaniko of Ciriaco and Felimon Cañete respectively.
    Thus there are many masters today who only teach and promote one particular style and yet can validly claim to belong to Doce Pares family.

    It was in early 1970 when Diony was commissioned by his father Eulogio Cañete, the President of Doce Pares to study, prepare and formulate a program of instruction that would cover and comprehend all the component styles. The specific objective was to come up with a training curriculum that would give equal treatment and prominence to all the original styles and by all means to afford due honours and recognition to all the founding advocates. Hence the birth of the "Multi-Style" system which very much sat well with Grandmaster Diony as he and his three elder brothers were among the very few who were fortunate to have learned all the original styles as brought into and introduced by the founding masters when Doce Pares was formed in 1932.

    The components of the "Multi-Style" system.

    The components styles of the "Multi-Style" are: All the three styles of Corto (Close Range); to wit; Corto Linear (the traditional linear striking or a blade oriented type of striking) Corto Kurbada (the wrist-twisting or snap-wrist, curving strike) Corto Orihinal (featuring low, deep bent knee and wide stance which highly characterized the original Doce Pares close range style)
    Media Largo (Medium Range)
    Larga Mano (Long Range)
    Espada y Daga (Short & Long Stick or Stick Dagger)
    Baraw (Knife Fighting Techniques)
    Mano-Mano (Open Hand Fighting)
    a. Sumbag-Patid (Punch and Kick)
    b. Lubag-Torsi (Locks and Immobilization)
    c. Layog-Dumog (Takedown and Grappling)
    d. Doble Olisi (Double Stick)

    Specialized Subjects:

    a. Eskrido
    b. Sinawali
    c. Tapi-Tapi (Alive Hand)
    d. Sayaw/Karanza (Forms)
  11. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Yes this is it and its not hehehe. That is again a interpretation of the group as a whole. Now each masters system like it said had its followers they too put their own interpretation on it based on their experience and other influences hence it would change again. So 12 styles to start with have over the years increased somewhat. And there is the confusion for even GM Guba will have his own unique style. That's the beauty of FMA never to be a copycat robot. But to be unique.
  12. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    Too unique sometimes.

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